Mauser 98 .243 - opinions, please

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I found a chart. 9.3x57 is 44,000 CIP ppsi. 9.3x62 is higher, 9.3x64 is a lot higher.

.30 Super Belted is 53,000 CIP ppsi, I am surprised it is still listed and under the newer system at that.
But it was transmogrified to .300 H&H Magnum at 62,000 CIP ppsi. There is still the .300 Flanged at 46,000 CIP ppsi.

.416 Rigby is 47.000 ppsi CIP but SAAMI lets it go to 52,000 ppsi. The old value of 41,000 CIP CUP sounds better.
 
Mowgli Terry said:
When did the German military start to accept junk actions? Pays to stay away from scrubbed actions.
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Generally late 1944s and 1945s are viewed with suspicion but the vast majority were well made still. If you want a real Mauser for a build you’re talking prewars, ideally the Oberndorf sporting actions or an Argentine. The Kriegsmodell by Steyr, code BNZ, late 1944 and 1945 is to be avoided for builds. This is easily identifiable as it was a massively simplified rifle for the envisioned last stand by the Volksgewehr (People’s Army), the late ones looking like a sporterized Mauser with no handguard and a chintzy rear sight. They’ve become collectors items in their own right.

I only build on Oberndorf commercial actions and have several underway presently though most any pre-mid 1944 M98 is as good or better an action than most available today new. I chose them mainly for the style of the bolt handle but also for their extremely consistent quality. The Argentine actions are renowned as well for their quality. Here’s a Model A Oberndorf of mine I just rebored .375, something much larger (.577 Kemano, the .500 Jeffery necked up straight), and a nice Oberndorf dressed out in a freshen up.

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Ardent said:
Generally late 1944s and 1945s are viewed with suspicion but the vast majority were well made still. If you want a real Mauser for a build you’re talking prewars, ideally the Oberndorf sporting actions or an Argentine. The Kriegsmodell by Steyr, code BNZ, late 1944 and 1945 is to be avoided for builds. This is easily identifiable as it was a massively simplified rifle for the envisioned last stand by the Volksgewehr (People’s Army), the late ones looking like a sporterized Mauser with no handguard and a chintzy rear sight. They’ve become collectors items in their own right.

I only build on Oberndorf commercial actions and have several underway presently though most any pre-mid 1944 M98 is as good or better an action than most available today new. I chose them mainly for the style of the bolt handle but also for their extremely consistent quality. The Argentine actions are renowned as well for their quality. Here’s a Model A Oberndorf of mine I just rebored .375, something much larger (.577 Kemano, the .500 Jeffery necked up straight), and a nice Oberndorf dressed out in a freshen up.

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I like your style. Got anymore pictures. The stock's are very nice to.
 
Ardent said:
The Mauser stock in the middle will be on the .375 M98 or the .577-500. Don’t tell Slamfire.
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Those are beautiful rifles. I do think the Mauser action is a great design, just that when I had a 35 Whelen made on a Mauser action, I started with an action made of modern materials.

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It did not make a lot of sense to put a lot of money into a rifle build, with an old Military action that was never designed or built to withstand those loads, and end up with something like this:

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To each his own.
 
We can google pics of any rifle with damage, that’s almost certainly from improper handloading and rifles like the M98 have suffered more of that than any other just due to the volume in service and customized.

That’s also the beauty of an M98, they yield long before they blow being malleable at the core. Also some of the best gas handling in the business in the event of a case failure.
 
troy fairweather said:
nice, the mauser stocks are they 100% by hand or do you use a duplicator.
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Varies, no set rule, that one’s off a pantograph, finished and inletted by hand. The Hagn for instance was fully by hand, well belt sander for shaping as I’d never stocked that frame size of Hagn. If I want to do something new you start with a blank, band saw, and belt sander. If you’re repeating copy carve it, but often those get changed up too and you make additions to the pattern stock, like a drop box magazine etc.
 
Ardent said:
Varies, no set rule, that one’s off a pantograph, finished and inletted by hand. The Hagn for instance was fully by hand, well belt sander for shaping as I’d never stocked that frame size of Hagn. If I want to do something new you start with a blank, band saw, and belt sander. If you’re repeating copy carve it, but often those get changed up too and you make additions to the pattern stock, like a drop box magazine etc.
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id like to one day redo my stock on my 09 arge, like the one on post #52. i like that swept back grip and thin forend. did you buy that hex barrel or make it. id like my 09 to look like a early 1900s german sporter.
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You mean nicely customized or beat to death?

The 1909 is or was well known for soft steel. A lot of redo heat treatment. Peacetime fit and that kewl sporter type floorplate made it popular for sporting rifles in the 80s. Caliber .280 was common and easy on the old 7.65s... until some nimrod pronounced that the .280 could be overloaded to "equal the 7mm Rem Mag with bullets up to 150 grains." They were loading .280 so hot some of those geniuses used Winchester .270 brass because it was thought stronger AND larger volume. Idiots.

Early reports on those Dumolins described some peculiarities. One being proprietary integral scope dovetails. I see you found rings, though.
 
troy fairweather said:
id like to one day redo my stock on my 09 arge, like the one on post #52. i like that swept back grip and thin forend. did you buy that hex barrel or make it. id like my 09 to look like a early 1900s german sporter.
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Be an excellent candidate, your Argentine. The 1/2 octagon, integral rib barrel is an original Oberndorf .30-06 sporting rifle barrel rebored to .375. They’re worth a mint even shot out, as guys like me seek them out for rebores. To make an equivalent barrel profile from a new blank you’re looking at the $4-5k range. The next best thing is to get McGowen 1/2 octagon for around $600, it’ll only be missing the rib and stud, those can be addressed in classy ways cost effectively (banded NECG stud, and front sight).

Good wood is the next hurdle, several of those blanks there are in the $1000-2000 range before cutting, and the working time is far more. But none of it is anything the studious do it your selfer can’t tackle with patience and time.
 
Ardent said:
Be an excellent candidate, your Argentine. The 1/2 octagon, integral rib barrel is an original Oberndorf .30-06 sporting rifle barrel rebored to .375. They’re worth a mint even shot out, as guys like me seek them out for rebores. To make an equivalent barrel profile from a new blank you’re looking at the $4-5k range. The next best thing is to get McGowen 1/2 octagon for around $600, it’ll only be missing the rib and stud, those can be addressed in classy ways cost effectively (banded NECG stud, and front sight).

Good wood is the next hurdle, several of those blanks there are in the $1000-2000 range before cutting, and the working time is far more. But none of it is anything the studious do it your selfer can’t tackle with patience and time.
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i was given a 1/2 octagon ribbed j.p.sauer barrel, tho it was for a small ring or 88 it's in 8x57. i put it on my 91 argentine with a little fiting and timing it. the man that did my 09 was the shop foreman for p.o ackley in the 50s. john van patten had a few boring machines, you can find his name in the back of old gun books.

he bored a 03 springfield in 358nm for me, i have to sell that rifle 2 year ago tho.john had machines and even reamer from ackley, the las gn john did wa my 09, he died a few months later, his children are anti gun and scraped all his equipment.

wish i had a mill and better lathe, id like to practice on those cheap gm barrel blanks.
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That's the prettiest '91 I ever saw.
They do not seem to have been much used for hunting rifles in Europe. I have seen sporter versions of every Mauser from 1871 forward but do not recall another 91.
 
Ackley was completely correct - removing taper reduces bolt thrust. To think otherwise is to declare yourself in ignorance of basic mechanics - namely friction, Newton's third law and the concept of normal forces.

That's relevant since the 8x57 has more than twice the taper of the .243. However it's not enough to tell you you're OK as it's not clear how much thrust has been decreased. What is informative is that M98s are commonly used with numerous high pressure cartridges including the Brenneke series. All this blather about the .243 being unsafe for that reason is just that - blather. That doesn't mean the gun is a good buy, and I would be concerned about how it's barreled and chambered and whether it's correctly headspaced. But it's not unsafe for being chambered in a cartridge that runs at the same pressure as other cartridges commonly used in the action.

Heck, Kimber re-barreled numerous M96 Mausers to .308 with no trouble. Other small ring conversions in .308 family cases are everywhere, pissing off Mauser purists in the process of working just fine. Similarly '50s 7x57 ammo often piezos out over 60KPSI yet somehow that's OK. This is a big ring M98.
 
Jim Watson said:
That's the prettiest '91 I ever saw.
They do not seem to have been much used for hunting rifles in Europe. I have seen sporter versions of every Mauser from 1871 forward but do not recall another 91.
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Makes sense they were all in Argentina and other south american country's. I think I will refinish the stock. I made it dark so I looked like it was done 100 years ago.
 
Yes, I have seen 88 sporters. There is a variety in the 1911 ALFA catalogue (reprint.). They would sell you about any mil-spec of the era but sporters were based on 88 and 98. Not to mention Mannlichers and the neither fish nor fowl Haenel.
 
Llama Bob said:
Ackley was completely correct - removing taper reduces bolt thrust. To think otherwise is to declare yourself in ignorance of basic mechanics - namely friction, Newton's third law and the concept of normal forces.

That's relevant since the 8x57 has more than twice the taper of the .243. However it's not enough to tell you you're OK as it's not clear how much thrust has been decreased. What is informative is that M98s are commonly used with numerous high pressure cartridges including the Brenneke series. All this blather about the .243 being unsafe for that reason is just that - blather. That doesn't mean the gun is a good buy, and I would be concerned about how it's barreled and chambered and whether it's correctly headspaced. But it's not unsafe for being chambered in a cartridge that runs at the same pressure as other cartridges commonly used in the action.

Heck, Kimber re-barreled numerous M96 Mausers to .308 with no trouble. Other small ring conversions in .308 family cases are everywhere, pissing off Mauser purists in the process of working just fine. Similarly '50s 7x57 ammo often piezos out over 60KPSI yet somehow that's OK. This is a big ring M98.
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Careful, you’re speaking well put common sense. ;)
 
On the subject of the strength M-98 style Mauser actions: A few years ago when on a business trip to Germany I spent a couple days at the proof house in Ulm. I found it interesting that they were using vintage Mauser actions on some of their pressure guns and snapped this photo. Also here's Ulm proof house, where they do some other fascinating types of proof testing, including bombproof limos. There's nothing like it in US that I know of. 2005-10-02 09.24.17.jpg 2005-10-02 10.00.15.jpg
 
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