Why Prices Go Up

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A handful of flippers have zero effect on the used gun market as a whole. And the example the OP had about the seller that seemed to know little about the guns on his table.....I bet he lost a ton of money.

I know a couple of guys that flip things, one does houses and the other classic cars. If there's anything I've learned from them it's that you need to know EVERY little detail to make money at flipping, both about the market your in and the items you are flipping. One screw up and you will lose every bit of profit you made for the year. And flipping things isn't about screwing people over. It's about buying something, for an amount a seller is happy for, and then finding buyers that are willing to pay more for that item. There's nothing wrong with that, as often sellers don't know how to market what they've got, or even how to find the right buyer. And some buyers don't know how to, or don't want to, scour the internet and shows for the ultimate deal, they just want to purchase a specific gun.
 
"Antiques Roadshow" or "Antique Archeology" effect. This works on many collectable items other than firearms. I particularly enjoy the Antiques Roadshow episodes where they compare the appraisals given the first time to a decade later. Surprising how many actually lost value.
 
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FlSwampRat said:
Gouging occurs on necessary items, food, pharmaceuticals, a generator after a hurricane.... There is no gouging ever on optional items like collectibles.


I dislike sellers lying to prospective customers, but I do have to say, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for someone who doesn't do their own research and thinking. What does it take to pull out a smart phone and check the internet for "When did Century Arms start importing Acme ZY-187's"
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No price gouging doesn't exist:

 
George P said:
No price gouging doesn't exist:
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[/QUOTE]FlSwampRat said: ↑
Gouging occurs on necessary items, food, pharmaceuticals, a generator after a hurricane...[/QUOTE]

Funny that your video started off about post hurricane generator sales. Please re-read my line I re-quoted above.
If something is necessary to life and health and someone is way overcharging for it, that's gouging.
If someone has a Beatles Butcher cover, a Louis Vuitton holster, Audie Murphy's own rifle, etc. for sale, it's a different story. You can very well live without those luxuries/collectibles/wants. Somebody has a for real Walker Colt for sale and they want $1.500K for it, and someone's willing to pay for it, Blessed Be. Not gouging.

I live in Florida, I've seen trucks set up after a hurricane charging twice what a Honda generator would cost for a cheesy import Harbor Freight wouldn't carry. I did not in any way say/infer/hint that gouging doesn't happen. I said that on optional purchases of things that are simply wanted, it isn't gouging to ask what the traffic will bear.
 
Yes, gouging exists. Just not in this context. Price gouging - in one legal context - is where (during a state of emergency) a seller dramatically increases the prices of certain (specific) goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative. One might philosophically disagree with that, and say its simply an extreme form of market dynamics, but the reality is that price gouging is a defined activity, and one that may be illegal in certain circumstances.

There has never been a "state of emergency" on anything firearm related, so by definition there has never been price gouging on firearms. Yes, exploitative selling (to the point of unethical behavior) by some infamous examples (Cheaper Than Dirt comes to mind ... several times). That is not gouging, That's being a jerk in the marketplace.

George P said:
No price gouging doesn't exist:
Click to expand...
 
Gouging occurs on necessary items, food, pharmaceuticals, a generator after a hurricane..

Funny that your video started off about post hurricane generator sales. Please re-read my line I re-quoted above.
If something is necessary to life and health and someone is way overcharging for it, that's gouging.
If someone has a Beatles Butcher cover, a Louis Vuitton holster, Audie Murphy's own rifle, etc. for sale, it's a different story. You can very well live without those luxuries/collectibles/wants. Somebody has a for real Walker Colt for sale and they want $1.500K for it, and someone's willing to pay for it, Blessed Be. Not gouging.

I live in Florida, I've seen trucks set up after a hurricane charging twice what a Honda generator would cost for a cheesy import Harbor Freight wouldn't carry. I did not in any way say/infer/hint that gouging doesn't happen. I said that on optional purchases of things that are simply wanted, it isn't gouging to ask what the traffic will bear.
Click to expand...
Watch that video again and see why gouging does not exist. Two parties either agree on the trade of money for product or they do not. In either case, there is no such thing as gouging.
 
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drk1 said:
Every wonder why prices go up on firearms? Having worked in gun shops for a long time, I have a pretty good understanding of the manufacturers supply/distribution chain and how that all shapes prices with new firearms. But as a collector it has always amazed me to watch the prices on collector items go up just because. In the old days, i.e. before the internet, there was no reason for an increase other than inflation or some guy sold one just like this one to another fellow, so.... this one must be worth at least that much. Now there is a relatively new wrinkle in the process -- "the flipper". Maybe its all the tv shows that show people buying something and then "flippin' " it, usually making a huge profit in the process. I realize that in the good old days there were guys out there who tried to make money buy and selling guns. Somebody once said it was probably the second or third oldest profession. In any event, the internet has made it into something of a sport, although I view it more like extortion or maybe highway robbery. For example, there was a guy at a show about a year ago that had three tables packed with relativeley nice 19th century items. There were just a couple of issues: 1. Up until two weeks before the show he wasn't a member of the club, but somebody made a "special allowance" not only to let this guy in but rent him tables too; 2. he really didn't know anything at all about what he was selling other than what he found in the latest bluebook; 3. he clearly ripped of an heir or an estate giving all collectors a black eye. In a more recent example, just today, I discovered there is a dealer in Texas who bought an item on GB just a month ago. He drove up the price to the point that he paid more than twice what a similar one sold for just a month before that. Now, a little more than an month later, he has it listed for sale on GunsInt. at a price 1/6th more than he paid for it. Now, before anybody gets bent out of shape at me, it's clear that he can do whatever he wants, but my question is to what extent are actions such as his damaging the collecting community. With the recent problems at the NRA, it's already pretty cut-throat out there; guys like this only seem to be making it worse. In short, his greed is driving up the price way beyond the mechanism of supply and demand. So, I either pay the price or walk away, but if I pay the price, it's only encouraging other "flippers". At the same time, if this guy's price is now the benchmark, I have to raise my insurance, so he's costing me money even if I don't do anything! And then the next person through the door at the local gun shop with a similar item for sale will expect the "on-line" price he/she saw. So it becomes a vicious cycle. It's reached the point that in some speciality areas of collecting, the "flippers" are pushing up prices almost 50% a year! Can that really be good for anyone other than the "flippers."
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Paragraphs please. Older eyes have a big problem with large blocks of text.
 
I'm not into exotic firearms so I will say that is one thing I've loved about this hobby, is the relatively stable prices. Other hobbies, knives for example, the flippers drive rarer pieces to such inflated prices that it blows my mind (and to their credit, a certain percentage of collectors pay it). But if anyone mentions it, that guy is mauled for not understanding capitalism. I understand people are free to list whatever price they want and people are free to buy or walk away... But just because you are free to do something, doesn't mean other's can't have a negative opinion about it. It's one thing to be a collector and sell at market place, but imho it's something different to buy items that you do not want solely to mark up the price and make a buck on the next guy.
 
This happens with everything guns cars jewelry even houses that’s the part I hate I bet your house would be worth half as much if flippers didn’t buy ever house with a little equity. But everyone has to make a living would you feel bad because you made a few $ on a complete stranger.
 
You guys are talking about all the different market forces that affect prices. The real underlying reason prices increase is the constant devaluation of our currency which most attributed to the large national debt. It's also referred to as inflation. Our economy, whether purposely or accidentally, is set up to reward debtors to pay back debt with increasingly less valuable dollars.
Firearms are actually quite inexpensive compared to things like healthcare, housing, automobiles and most hard assets. Automation in manufacturing obviously helps.
 
I, have been to a lot of gun shows. I, see people walking around and looking, but no one buying. Like the man said, there is a sucker born every day. Sure some will buy, but the most of the people who know will not.
 
If I ever get down about the price of guns, I look at it this way. My first pistol was a Ruger RST-6 bought in 1979 for $92.00. Liked it enough to go "all out" on a Mark II KMK-512 a scant 6 years later, at $259, nearly 3 times the price of the RST. The other day, I bought a new Mark IV, 22/45 Lite for $479, not even double the price of the Mark II, yet 34 years later. Now, I don't feel so bad about gun prices.

And about price gouging-I live in a resort area. We constantly have price gouging on gasoline, due to the companies wanting to take advantage of the holiday and vacation traffic, like last weekend.:eek:

Just a fact of life here. They just don't have any exceptions for the people that live here, year-round.
 
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Casefull said:
You guys are talking about all the different market forces that affect prices. The real underlying reason prices increase is the constant devaluation of our currency which most attributed to the large national debt. It's also referred to as inflation. Our economy, whether purposely or accidentally, is set up to reward debtors to pay back debt with increasingly less valuable dollars.
Firearms are actually quite inexpensive compared to things like healthcare, housing, automobiles and most hard assets. Automation in manufacturing obviously helps.
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Plastic has saved the gun manufacturers.
 
It doesn’t bother me, private transactions are just that imo. So long as both parties are happy with the transaction then what do I care? It is quiet frankly none of my business.
That doesn’t mean somethings should be done, we should have some civility to us, some decent morality, but no agreed upon private transaction should be criminalized.
In theory if the OP is correct I will benefit, well my children will benefit greatly from this because they’re increasing the value of my collection all the time...
um Thank You, I guess.



wojownik said:
There has never been a "state of emergency" on anything firearm related, so by definition there has never been price gouging on firearms
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Get a time machine and go to LA the day the Rodney King riots started and you’ll get some blow back on that opinion. That week is one of the main reasons waiting periods began to be replaced, people “needed firearms” for protection and they couldn’t get them, legally.

That said I agree price gouging in firearms doesn’t exist, it doesn’t exist at all in free and private transactions.

I have a uncle that lives on the AL coast and runs a fairly large construction outfit. When the hurricane hit the FL a few months back I asked him if was he going to do any work there during the rebuild. His reply was “I can’t, FL has such tight price gouging laws I can’t go there and make a profit at all, I’d have to lose money.”

Yesterday I saw on the news them talking about how long the rebuild is taking, good job FL. No one is “price gouging” mean while you have people willing to pay and people willing to work, but you want let them. Brilliant.
 
It's all based on the Barnum principle. Suckers born every day.
As far as the capital system, well as any ism it's feeds the top with no real concern to society.
You got joe q making x amount trying to live like joe b making xx and joe d making xxx.
Untill people wise up it just status quo. Regardless of want if joe q and joe b stopped trying to play keep up and just didn't pay retail and not even percieved sale price for non essential junk plus just walk by those tables and leave them with their hoard. Things would change pretty quick. After all there are way more of joe q and joe b than joe d and up.
Basically stop being suckers.
 
I think we're conflating two types of price increases:

1. Price increases that occur because of an increase in demand for a certain product (or the inverse, which is a drop in supply while demand remains constant).

2. Gradual (or sometimes not-so-gradual) decreases in the value of a dollar over time because of monetary policy. Prices aren't getting higher. Your dollar just buys less.

Edit: @Casefull posted an explanation of No. 2.
 
Remember the Tulip crisis of 1637? Prices of tulips hag gone out of control, then suddenly the free market said "***?" and stopped buying at the ridiculous prices.. It will happen again with guns and has happened before..
Do you recall the price of a S&W M29 in the mid 70's? It was 2 to 3 times the MSRP, if you could find one.. and that eventually crashed and came back to reality..
It is capitalism at it best.

Also the prices are relative... for example, go calculate how many loaves of bread you could buy for an ounce of gold in say 1920 and then calculate how many you can buy today with the same ounce of gold. I think you'll be surprised at the result and there are a lot of other lessons there that I won't get in to here.. but enjoy the research if you have the time.
 
0ne3 said:
I, have been to a lot of gun shows. I, see people walking around and looking, but no one buying. Like the man said, there is a sucker born every day. Sure some will buy, but the most of the people who know will not.
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This statement has zero value - just because YOU don't want to spend the money for something doesn't mean someone else won't - especially if it's something they truly want.
 
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Seems to me all the pre-lock and pre-MIM S&W revolvers are $1400.00 or more.
NIB with papers and tools only factory fired.
 
I try to follow a few rules.
If something I'm interested is in high demand or rare which causes increase in price I'll choose an alternate.
If it says antique, classic, rare find or similar I don't even look.
Always compare used price to best NIB.
Put a reasonable limit on it and stick to it.
Where possible think on it for a week.
Like with BP guns. I've set a limit of 400 on any gun. Don't care age, manufacture, looks or anything. It's just a BP gun, a hobby nothing worth more and I will not budge. I have plemty of nice BP guns that will hold their own with any and still have money in my pocket.
I do not sell to resellers. Might as well pawn it. Same thing.
When it comes to making things I weigh my time, supplies and fuel (electricity and such) against buying bulk.
Example, someone was making primer caps for BP. Seemed neat thing maybe to consider. Well at the cost just for the cap minus the volatile material was .01. The price of the tool to make the empty cap, with ship, you would have to make 5,500 caps. Bottom line after all is figured you can buy 5000 in bulk cheaper.
Ok I know. The point is most don't think in terms of reasonable costs. If you don't make some cognitive decisions then you are investing in a suckers market. Part of that also includes what does my participation in all this do to affect those in a lesser situation. That massive scale of disconsideration affects everyone. Only a massive consumer team effort of all incomes can keep markets in check.
Which considering humans ain't gona happen.
 
Let me answer "Why prices go up?" Some people have too much money while others simply love their job and don't mind delaying their retirement.
 
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