Milsurp .30-06 Accuracy in Hunting Rifle - Expectations & Experiences

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walker944

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I recently inherited a LOT of mil-surp .30-06. I own several hunting rifles in that cartridge, but have not had a chance (very busy schedule at the moment) to get to the range and evaluate it for accuracy. Would like to hear from those that have shot mil-surp in a hunting rifle configuration and what your results were at the range. Please feel free to compare the mil-surp results with any other ammo you prefer. While I wouldn't expect 1moa, I'd like to have some level of expectation. Please add any concerns or issues from you personal experiences, as well.
 
1. No better time to get the Garand, 1903, and/or 1917 of your dreams. ;)
2. I got around 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards the sole time I tried shooting groups from a Remington 700 ADL using surplus M2 ball (SL53 IIRC). However I generally suck at rifle shooting so this info is not particularly useful.
 
Without a doubt there are going to be a huge number of replies where posters report MOA and sub MOA groups with military surplus ammunition. I expect to read of three shot groups, five shot groups, maybe a 10 shot group, but I predict, there won't be any MOA or sub MOA 20 shot groups.

I pulled MIL C 1313F Cartridge Caliber .30, Ball M2, dated 1971. The accuracy requirement at 600 yards is that the mean radii shall not be greater than 7.5 inches. The diameter of the group will be double that, 15 inches, which is over 2 MOA, but, others have stated a reasonable extreme spread to be three times the mean radii. I don't know how to exactly convert mean radii to an extreme group size, without the group data.

But lets say the mean radius converts to extreme spread by multiplying the mean radius by 3. Then the 7.5 inches at 600 yards converts to 3.75 MOA. And that is reasonable for military ammunition. In the book "Hell to Pay", the statistic of 65,000 causalities per month was experienced by the United States Armed forces during WW2. And that works out to 5000 dead per week, the remaining are alive, but in various states of disassembly. By the fourth year of the war, guys are being sent to the front with minimal firearms training. Two guys with whom I talked about this, one had a total of 20 rounds of live fire before landing at Iwo Jima, my Uncle 101 Airborne, had eight rounds of familiarization with his machine gun before dropping over Normandy. When soldiers are being used up at that rate, and training is so rushed that at best the boot understands how to disassemble and clean his weapon, expecting world class accuracy from the draftee is unrealistic, and ammunition and weapon standards can be relaxed to increase production. It is far better to hand the Solider a weapon and ammunition that goes bang, than promising him the most perfect combination of ammunition and firearms later. After the landing sort of later, just rush the beaches with pointy sticks, overwhelm the enemy firing Nambu's, and if you survive, you will get a target rifle and target ammunition later.

As a general rule, 3 MOA is pretty good for a military rifle and its ammunition. And, finding someone who can shoot 3 MOA in a combat situation, is also pretty good. And in a big war, finding someone who lasts 9 months in combat, is pretty hard. They happen, I have read their books, but, look at the number who did not make it. I had another Uncle, died within 20 days of entering the European theater. He was a replacement, managed to join his unit during the Battle of the Bulge, and he did not make it out alive. That was pretty common.

So, how accurate does ball ammunition need to be? It can be more accurate than requirements but it is a stupid vendor that reduces his profits by spending time and energy trying to improve on the spec.

You will see confounding things. These IMI bullets will barely hold the black in my 308 Ruger M77, but shot unusually well in a M70 Sporter.

This may be a statistical abnomally. The bullets are mil spec, the cases and powder also, but they were my reloads. I have not tried a larger group I was just blowing bullets down range to zero a scope.

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I did shoot 17 rounds with the old military match bullet. And this is closer to what I expect for the old bullet.

DkWLfzf.jpg
 
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I have fired the following in a scoped M1917 sporter with a very good bore, it flirts with 1MOA with a tuned handload ... Various WWII US mfg M2 ball, WWII and later dated (not delinked MG) LC, HXP Greek 60's through 1980 M2, foreign (Belgium ) 1950s. Never "scientifically" tested for groups, but all ran in the 2 to 4 MOA range with some noticeably more consistent than others. The best was on par with Win 150 grain Super X or my M1 practice load with the Hornady 150FMJ.
 
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I remember, with a Garand, busting clays from standing w/ hasty sling at 100yds with LC69. (ETA that this was on a 100yd range.)

It's not just the ammo... manufacturing and all as was mentioned... but also, is the ammo in your barrel's accuracy node.
 
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3-4" @ 100 yd is acceptable for a "stock" rifle; it is "minute of man". Only uou can answer if this is good enough for your purposes.

It is not acceptable for hunting. FMJ is not humane enough to kill game animals cleanly, only men, and then not cleanly at all.
 
Thanks for the input, guys!! And, to quell any concerns that I might be thinking of using ball ammo for hunting, rest assured that is not my intent. I simply stated "hunting rifle" to imply modern vs military rifles...knowing that old military rifles can have shot out barrels impacting their accuracy. I would be using the mil-surp ball ammo strictly at the range.

So, it looks like 3-4+" at 100 yards can be expected. Can't wait to get to the range and try it on a few of my rifles.

Incidentally, I do have an M1 Garand, a 1903A3, and a couple of Eddystone1917s, and even a Belgian Mauser model 1950, as well as several modern rifles...all in .30-06. Just need to free up some time to get to the dang range before the south Texas heat gets too ridiculous!!
 
Nope....no lottery winner here! Haha Just have collected a few things over the past while, but struggle with range time. So unfortunately I have stuff I haven't had a chance to shoot. Need to change my sinful ways!!! lol :D
 
Btw, you probably know this already, but assume all. 30 surplus to be corrosive unless known otherwise. Later dates of HXP and LC are known non - corrosive, I'll let you do the Google fu.
 
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I ran a box of these thru my Kreiger barreled M1 Garand at the 100 yard line and put most of the shots in less than two inches from a sand bag rest.
No one will mistake me for an expert marksman.
 
If I so my part with my surplus Austrian and WW2 ammo I can get about a 3 inch group at 100 with a Remington 1903a3.
 
View attachment 844754

I ran a box of these thru my Kreiger barreled M1 Garand at the 100 yard line and put most of the shots in less than two inches from a sand bag rest.
No one will mistake me for an expert marksman.

That's the good stuff. That is not ball ammunition, that is the ammunition issued at Leg Matches and the National Matches. It was pretty good stuff.

T9zmw56.jpg

M72 was for the Garands and M118 was for the M14's. Both were very good

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I shot M118 in competition and the stuff would produce 20 round groups, in my M1a, around 1.25" to 1.5", which is fine for an iron sighted rifle being shot prone with a sling. I shot thousands of the 174 grain bullet standing and sitting rapid fire, used the 168 SMK at 300 and 600 yards. The last M72 was made 1968, I think, and was never upgraded with the better bullet. M118 became M852 with the 168 SMK. None of this match ammunition was issue ball ammunition, this stuff was only for competitive shooting. Maybe sniping, but it was never the cheap stuff given out as general issue.
 
Wow a 1" group at 400 yards. Pretty good.

I got 1/4moa groups at 400yds from my open sighted 1903, in it is original 30-03 chambering, using lc69 ammo..........

I've never had alot of milsurp ammo to play with, maybe 100 rounds, but hitting a clay at 100yds was no guarantee.
 
Slamfire, I had a friend whose father was drafted into Marines during Korea and first he fired a rifle was off the fantail of the troop ship he was on enroute to Korea and the targets were 55 gal drums etc. Just goes to show you that kids that are not taught to shoot may likely lose their life if something happens later.

Good point
 
Thanks for the input, guys!! And, to quell any concerns that I might be thinking of using ball ammo for hunting, rest assured that is not my intent. I simply stated "hunting rifle" to imply modern vs military rifles...knowing that old military rifles can have shot out barrels impacting their accuracy. I would be using the mil-surp ball ammo strictly at the range.

So, it looks like 3-4+" at 100 yards can be expected. Can't wait to get to the range and try it on a few of my rifles.

Incidentally, I do have an M1 Garand, a 1903A3, and a couple of Eddystone1917s, and even a Belgian Mauser model 1950, as well as several modern rifles...all in .30-06. Just need to free up some time to get to the dang range before the south Texas heat gets too ridiculous!!

That's what I thought you meant.

As to the expected performance, you won't know till you try it.
 
I thought there was something off about shooting LC69 in a 30-03 chamber, too. IIRC, they're just different enough to be not so great.
I don't think there was a whole lot of difference in the case dimensions, tho how I can't remember, but I do know the bullets, and likely throating changed.
Primarily, I didn't think any 30-03 chambered guns escaped the 06 change.
 
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