The gun for me

Flabbergasted1776 said:

I was hesitant about 30-06 because I had watched a video that said that 30-06 was too much for anything you wanted to eat, because the average round went 2950 to 3100fps, and would ruin a lot of the meat around the wound.

I was hoping to stay away from any magnum rounds because the wear they put on your rifle, but the 7mms and 6mms interested me awhile ago but they looked like a fad, but they're still going strong.
The creedmoor looks good but the ammo seems a little expensive to use on pig.

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You started out with what I consider a great distance limit for most people. Mine is 400 ish for game because I don't like the though of wounding it. For me to shoot that far a lot of parameters must be met.
For something that will work well far out, you will get a lot of damage up close. I except that as a necessary evil.
How much does a ham, or pack of bacon cost at the store? Compare that to the price of ammo.

MistWolf said:

I went to my LGS, which is well stocked, for 308 match ammo. They had just a couple of boxes of two different types of 308. On the other hand, they had several types of 6.5 Creedmore and at least four boxes of each type.

Last month, the wife and I took a trip to Blanding, a tiny town in the southeast corner or Utah. The nearest Wal-Mart is two to three hours away in New Mexico. I walked into the hardware store looking for 300 BLK. They had none, but did have a good selection of 6.5 Creedmore.

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That's fair, it may be much more popular in your neck of the woods, or maybe in general outside of my area. Here in north central IL, at least where I've shopped, .308 is much more common and you have more options. Probably has to do with there not being alot of hunting options with centerfire rifles in IL. Coyote is pretty much your only option and .308 and 6.5 Creedmore are a bit of overkill for that. With that being the case, given the longer history of .308 and .30-06 that may be why we see more of it around here.

MistWolf said:

I went to my LGS, which is well stocked, for 308 match ammo. They had just a couple of boxes of two different types of 308. On the other hand, they had several types of 6.5 Creedmore and at least four boxes of each type.

Last month, the wife and I took a trip to Blanding, a tiny town in the southeast corner or Utah. The nearest Wal-Mart is two to three hours away in New Mexico. I walked into the hardware store looking for 300 BLK. They had none, but did have a good selection of 6.5 Creedmore.

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I counted the last time I went into my local fleet supply store. They had 16 different kinds of 6.5 creedmoor. The only things they had more variety of was 30-06 and 223. Ammo availability is definitely not an issue.

someguy2800 said:

I counted the last time I went into my local fleet supply store. They had 16 different kinds of 6.5 creedmoor. The only things they had more variety of was 30-06 and 223. Ammo availability is definitely not an issue.

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Same out here.
.308s cheaper, but 6.5CMs has more options.

Flabbergasted1776 said:

I'm looking for a caliber that's good for the 50 to 150 yard range (pigs and deer) but can also reach out to 500 if needed, .223 is questionable for deer hunting and loses much of it's effectiveness past 200 yards, ( or so I've been told) and 7.62x39mm drops like a rock around 300. Semi automatic is preferred but not needed. Any insight and corrections are welcome,
Thank you.

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You didn't mention what action you preferred so I'm just throwing it out there, 6.5 Grendel.

Cheap Wolf ammo if desired, great premium ammo and a good potential for reloading.

LRDGCO said:

I was once deer hunting in VT with my accurate and appropriate sporterized Swede sitting at the base of a tree by a brook watching a trail. Our of nowwhere, up the side of the brook came a Moose cow and her calf. I made myself very, very small and really wished I had a bigger caliber rifle!

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Shockingly enough, the 6.5 Swede is the most popular caliber in Sweden for hunting, including moose, or älg [elk] as they call them. According to this article, Sweden has the highest number of moose per kilometer of any country in the world. Hunters take 100,000 per year, so they know a little about moose hunting. You would have been fine.

https://www.wildsweden.com/about/facts-about-moose

Speedo66 said:

Shockingly enough, the 6.5 Swede is the most popular caliber in Sweden for hunting, including moose, or älg [elk] as they call them. According to this article, Sweden has the highest number of moose per kilometer of any country in the world. Hunters take 100,000 per year, so they know a little about moose hunting. You would have been fine.

https://www.wildsweden.com/about/facts-about-moose

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Our moose and their moose are very different in size.
It would be more like hunting elk in the swamp.

308 win so you can shoot 7.62 nato too. Gives you potency at range plus 2 ammo choices.

Again the cartridge decision is ALWAYS determined by purpose.

The 6.5 CM is going to have more power, and more recoil. The .243 is going to have less power and less recoil. I would rather have the .243 for my daughter.

If I wanted to reach out and touch something far away...CM all the way.

Greg

Flabbergasted1776 said:

So after a little research .243 and the 6.5cm seem to be the front runners for me, but I'll have to get a second rifle in .308.(oh woe is me) so one last question, are either 243 or 6.5cm better if I reload, like maybe the manufacturers aren't loading to the cartridge's potential?

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308 win factory pretty hot. Hotter than nato. Might find this ammo better priced to just buy.

If I couldn't get closer than 500 yards, I'd quit hunting.
View attachment 844948
I've seen close to a hundred antelope killed here and never at 500 yards.

.243 Win for hunting out to 300 and targets out a lot farther. 7mm-08 if you want to stretch the effective hunting range. 6.5 Creedmoor sits between the two quite nicely, but it won't give you any advantage on targets over the .243, and it won't have the thump of the 7mm-08 as a hunting cartridge.

Depends how badly you need to shoot at 500 yards, honestly. 6.5 Creedmoor is going to do much better at that range than 243.

Flabbergasted1776 said:

...elk up on a hillside a quarter mile or so away, and later saw them watching me closer to a half mile away. And I have heard that antelope are hard to get close to.

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Elk, antelope, deer, moose and a variety of other game have been taken with the bow or a handgun at much shorter distances.

Kevin

6.5 Grendel. Why would you need more unless you're intending to hunt Elk, Moose, Grizzly, Bison or some other large game? and I would argue that hunting deer with your bison gun isn't the best choice. The Grendel is quite flat out to 225 yards with a 100 grain Barnes TTSX which has more than enough toughness to stay together through a hog shoulder and penetrate well. It retains 1000 ft.lbs of energy out to 300 yards where it also still has plenty of velocity for expansion. Besides hunting, it's supersonic out to 1000 yards or more with match bullets. You can have nice bolt actions like the CZ 527, the Howa Mini and of course an AR or just an upper and magazine for one you already have.

The Grendel pre-dates the Creedmoor and PRC but unless heavier, longer bullets are needed for well past 1000 yards target shooting or for large game like Elk or Moose, the Creedmoor's only advantage is its popularity. The Grendel's advantage is the smaller, lighter, shorter actions and guns it fits.

Basically, what you're going to get outside the Grendel are smaller, lighter cartridges that allow higher magazine capacity, are cheaper to shoot, better for varmints, but have marginal performance at longer ranges on medium-sized game like deer and hogs, or you'll get larger cartridges (by case size) that are generally going to be in larger, longer, heavier guns and with more recoil, but which could shoot farther (Creedmoor, PRC) or just hit with heavier bullets and more energy which is really only useful on the heaviest game that most of us will only ever shoot very rarely.

I strongly prefer the 7-08 over either smaller or larger cartridges for hunting. For over 400 yards I would suggest a 30-06 because it becomes a matter of bullet performance, better yet. Don't shoot an animal at over 400 yards. Bullet placement and performance is beyond the capability of most hunters and equipment. I have shot a deer at 450 yards using a range finder with a very accurate 7 MM mag. Placement was not perfect but it was a lung shot low and back, and bullet performance was not very good either, It took 3 shots to put it down and when I finally got there it was still alive. I since imposed a limit of 300 yards. At that range I am pretty sure of myself and my equipment for a one shot kill. I haven't shot game that far away for years and don't expect to.

Flabbergasted1776 said:

So after a little research .243 and the 6.5cm seem to be the front runners for me, but I'll have to get a second rifle in .308.(oh woe is me) so one last question, are either 243 or 6.5cm better if I reload, like maybe the manufacturers aren't loading to the cartridge's potential?

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The .243 excels handloaded, but rarely will you find the critter that can't be killed or the gun that won't shoot a federal fusion (not impossible though and that goes for about any chamber) but factory rifles cripple .243 performance, the best ones are ruger, savage, Remington for their twist rate. If going .243 I'd pick savage or Remington, when the barrel is shot out, it'll be quick easy to replace with an "age" prefit swap and pick up a faster twist to run the longer bullets. With the 6.5, the factory barrels are twisted properly so hand loading saves money but there are plenty of functional nice factory ammo options out there, if you plan on putting enough rounds downrange to wear out a barrel see above for makers.

Why not just go all out and get the Barrett M82 .50 Cal in semi-auto? It will certainly take down any game animal in the USA, and hey, you never know when you will have to take down a T-Rex behind a cinder block wall at 1500 yards....

In all seriousness though I would probably go with a .308 or a 6.5 creedmoor. In my personal opinion, I would probably go with the .308. I know 6.5 is all the rage these days and for good reason, but the .308 is a very capable cartridge and has been around for quite a while. And if you are hunting deer or hogs in cover at short distances, the extra bullet weight never hurts if you are shooting through light brush.

If you want a fast-twist .243, just get a 6mm Creedmoor. Admittedly, there's not as many rifles chambered for that but if that's what you're looking for then get it. A Barret fieldcraft is a nice rifle and comes with a 1:7 twist.

.56-56 Spencer.

Personal opinion.....do some actual hunting before even talking about 500 yard shots. The plains don't get much more open than South Dakota, where I've done all my hunting, and I don't know thaat I've ever found it necessary to shoot even 300 yards to get my deer, and I've gotten a buck every year since I was 13....and I'll be 42 when this season rolls around. for as much talk as you hear these days, 500 yard shots aren't the norm, nor are they really necessary under the vast majority of circumstances

Flabbergasted1776 said:

I'm looking for a caliber that's good for the 50 to 150 yard range (pigs and deer) but can also reach out to 500 if needed, .223 is questionable for deer hunting and loses much of it's effectiveness past 200 yards, ( or so I've been told) and 7.62x39mm drops like a rock around 300. Semi automatic is preferred but not needed. Any insight and corrections are welcome,
Thank you.

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The answer to you question, and what you really, really want, is not a .243 or 6.5 Creedmore. What you really, really want is a 25-06. In it, you can load bullets from 80grn up to 125grn. (I loaded some 140's one time: don't do that!) The old 25 has accounted for many deer, hogs, black bear and miscellaneous varmints for me through the years. If you are a Rifleman, the round will take anything from groundhog to moose provided you put the bullet where it needs to go. Recoil is minimal compared to .270 or 30-06 (I have all three) and noise isn't too bad. Doesn't ring your ears like a 7mm or 300 mag will. Only hang-up with the 25 for you is, I'm not aware of any semi-auto options for it.

Flabbergasted1776 said:

I was hesitant about 30-06 because I had watched a video that said that 30-06 was too much for anything you wanted to eat, because the average round went 2950 to 3100fps, and would ruin a lot of the meat around the wound.

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Just want to put this out there: it is very likely that more men and animals have been killed by the '06 than any other cartridge. From it's inception in 1906 until about 15 years ago, it was THE go-to game round in this area, and many other parts of the US. I hunt with mine often. Using 180 grain round-nose bullets at 50 to 200 yards, I have not yet encountered this alleged "meat damage" everyone talks about. Again, that is due to proper shot placement more than anything else. If you shoot a whitetail deer through both front shoulders with any centerfire cartridge, you will ruin your meat. If shot through the vitals, you don't ruin anything. Now, I am by no means an expert, but I am confident enough in my shooting that making a 200 yard shot with my '06, using a Williams receiver sight and properly rested, doesn't bother me in the least. Seems like more and more we get hung up on the "newest and bestest" calibers when the old timers will still do the job. All I'm saying is, I guess, don't dis-regard the 25-06/270/30-06 family of cartridges. They've been taking game in North America for 100 years now, and I'm sure will continue to do so.

Mac

06 darn good round. I like 165-167 gn bt. They easy on shooting and I have experienced very good accuracy and impact powder at distance. Like MacAR said, the meat loss is mute with target positioning and shot placement. Meat loss can happen with most any hp round. I found out a long time ago a 3rd rib from back, mid to little low broadside low lung lobe shot is faster put down than a heart with no meat loss. Loss of air causes equilibrium impairment almost immediately and unconscious in 5-6 seconds, dead by 8. Never had to track any more than 20 feet since doing so. Most just bow up and fall over or fall and scramble no more than 3. Used this placement with 243, 270, 06 and 44mag.

someguy2800 said:

For 200 yard hunting and 500 yard range fun, a 6.5 creedmoor in a bolt action, or a 6.5 Grendel in an AR15.

And just for the record, for range plinking a 223 works well out to 600 yards or more when properly loaded with 75-80 grain bullets. Never tried any further.

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I will second the 6.5 grendel in an AR platform for a decent short-to-medium range hunting round with longer target capabilty. Larger quarry like elk with an appropriate bullet within 300 yards is doable. Plenty of inexpensive plinking ammo around for paper, steel, and unhappy hogs, too.