Dangerous accidental overload. Mosin is strong action.

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SpadeTrump

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I did something real stupid today.

I was playing around my 1928 ex-dragoon with D166 200 grain Lapua projectiles and IMR 4064. Max load is 43.4 according to Lee and 46 according to 1967 Lyman. I started at 41 and worked up to 43. 43 was bad so I was trying to figure out if 42 or 42.5 was better.

While shooting my wife came home from her mothers with all kinds of woman drama and pissed me off pretty good. I should have just stopped shooting for the day but i went back in and loaded 5 rounds at 52.5 grains!

I shot the first one and had a pierced primer. it was a little tough to extract but I have had similar problems with generic BL-C(2). I should have stopped and looked at my load book.

Shot another. and had same result. The rifle was kicking harder but it wasn't overwhelming.

I started thinking. WTH is wrong. I just shot at 53 and now Im at 52.5 why am I having pierced primers? This is a sign of overpressure. Oh well. I am below max. I will just finish these off.

The 4th one looked like it had a piece of my firing pin in it. I took the bolt apart and it looked perfect.

I shot the 5th one and went in and looked at my book. I was supposed to be at 42.5 not 52.5 Holy Smokes! I was at least 15% above MAX. What a dumbass.

I will say that the Mosin is a strong action. also PPU brass holds up very well. The cases only grew by .005. The primer pockets were loose but not to the point I chuck brass. I reloaded them at 42 grains and shot a 5 shot 1" group at 50 yards. one of the cases developed what looked like a future crack so I pitched all 5.

my take-a-way from this. If your shooting and something distracting happens. STOP. If you shoot one shot and have some big sign like a pierced primer. STOP and check your data.

I am lucky I did not learn the hard way.

My shot group FYI All 5 shots on PAPER with a perfect 16" shot group. one on each side and one in the middle.

43.4 grains is 50,000 psi according to LEE. i wonder what 52 is?
 
ArchAngelCD said:
While I agree the Mosin Nagant is strong I don't think your charges would blow up another rifle.

Thanks for the reminder not to load while distracted.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what would blow it up. I saw Iraqveteran8888 on youtube try to blow one up and he could only lock it up. I dont want to find out or try!!!!
 
Glad you're OK and not, in the words of Charles Askins" combing a lot of iron out of your whiskers." The Mosin action is stronger than it is given credit for; Mauser fanboys often cite the split receiver as weak. Good reminder to be OCD about loading.
 
Most reasonably designed actions will not “blow up” because reasonably designed actions are made to protect the shooter when Murphy comes a callin. Usually they vent gases away from the shooter and if the action is made from decent materials they will “bend before they break”.

That said, with such an overpressure on your Mosin and have it still functioning properly is pretty impressive.
 
On guns this old, and with histories like it is likely to have had....I would say strong has about 40% to do with what happened to you....luck played the rest.

Guns that are getting that long in the tooth need (IMHO) to be given just a tad extra care. Slow down, no need to be pulling gun parts out of your eyeball just because you got ticked at your wife.
 
fpgt72 said:
On guns this old, and with histories like it is likely to have had....I would say strong has about 40% to do with what happened to you....luck played the rest.

Guns that are getting that long in the tooth need (IMHO) to be given just a tad extra care. Slow down, no need to be pulling gun parts out of your eyeball just because you got ticked at your wife.
Click to expand...


I always wonder about this old guns thinking. for example. many people shoot the barrel out of their AR or say something powerful like a Remington 700 to be generic. and they slap new barrels on them... most mosins have the original barrel. mine says 1928 and the date on the tang is 28. so. my barrel has not even been shot out one time yet. I think they used strong steel in 1928. so what is an older gun? a mosin on its first barrel or a remington 700 on its 3rd barrel. just my thoughts. I know that an old Iver Johnson break top should be treated with extra care. but I don't think mosins or arisakas etc need a lot of worry if the gun is checked out and in spec.

One other thing I consider. A mosin manufactured in say 1935 was used exactly 10 years. in 1945 they were put in cosmoline and storage. better weapons came along and they were sold off in crates. so when they came out of the crate in say 2009. they were only 10 years old? maybe my way of thinking is screwed up but thats how i think. lol.

you are correct though. if you are in distress do not work on something hazardous.
 
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Jim Watson said:
About 70,000 according to Vihtavuori.
Click to expand...
Yikes! It was totally unintentional but Iraqveteran8888 on YouTube did a torture test loading way to much unknown mixed shotgun/pistol/rifle powder and the rifle simply locked up. i think some internals bent / cracked but no damage would have occurred to shooter... still. I like my ex-dragoon and i spent a lot of time accurizing it. I ended up loading and shooting 25 more at 42 and 42.5 grains and was getting consistant 1-1.5 inch groups at 50 yards so im very thankful!
 
SpadeTrump said:
I always wonder about this old guns thinking. for example. many people shoot the barrel out of their AR or say something powerful like a Remington 700 to be generic. and they slap new barrels on them... most mosins have the original barrel. mine says 1928 and the date on the tang is 28. so. my barrel has not even been shot out one time yet. I think they used strong steel in 1928. so what is an older gun? a mosin on its first barrel or a remington 700 on its 3rd barrel. just my thoughts. I know that an old Iver Johnson break top should be treated with extra care. but I don't think mosins or arisakas etc need a lot of worry if the gun is checked out and in spec.

One other thing I consider. A mosin manufactured in say 1935 was used exactly 10 years. in 1945 they were put in cosmoline and storage. better weapons came along and they were sold off in crates. so when they came out of the crate in say 2009. they were only 10 years old? maybe my way of thinking is screwed up but thats how i think. lol.

you are correct though. if you are in distress do not work on something hazardous.
Click to expand...

The difference between a "modern" sporting" rifle and a military rifle, let alone a military rifle from a country that did not have that easy of a go of it is pretty huge.

A few things to think about....you said used strong steel in 1928. Well yea, and at that time the bad guys are not a block from your house so pre war equipment MIGHT have a little more *cough* care, in putting them together. You have to remember in soviet russia....even in the late 20's their world was pretty far from set, they are still fighting wars with everyone around them from the whites, to the we want no guberment types in the south, poles in the west, people wanting to put the czar system up and going in the north....and we will not talk about fighting themselves....remember ole lovable uncle Joe was not the one to run the show.....Leon was the #2 guy.....and don't hold me to dates I am a bit fuzzy....but the thing to remember they are still in the 20's cranking them out as fast as they can.....and what we call quality control...was nothing....if a gun goes kaboom who cares, there is another guy right behind him we can use.....this is not the west, where things like that put the brakes on things......we have plenty of people to put behind them.

Now it living to this day says it is a safe rifle....ok. But now we have to look at just how it was taken care of.....how long did it sit in the mud after the first guy got killed and it was handed off to the second.....was Olga really thinking about coating cosmo on it, or was she worried that uncle Joe was going to use her husbands head for a new lamp shade.....and just how many holes did that warehouse have in it.....all of these are questions that come to mind when talking about surplus weapons, and soviet equipment gets a double down on all of this. There are too many things that come into the question.

So FOR ME in shooting this old stuff.....and really that is about all I have, I was going to say I can't think of the last "new" gun I bought, but I did buy a CZ 527 about 2-3 years ago.....but before or after that I am coming up blank. My interests lie in vintage stuff, not just military but sporting as well.

When looking at sporting guns....even vintage examples they usually....USUALLY get a bit of different care......it is an investment....my last model 81, you can tell was used quite a bit....finish gone around the rec. where you would carry it if in the field, and you can tell it has been in the woods, with scuffs and hits here and there....but you can also tell this was something that was taken care of. There are clues at looking at old items to see how it was taken care of.....if a car has a coat hanger for an antenna chances are it was not really taken care of that well (I just thought half the kids will have no idea what that last statement means)

Vintage stuff I look at as I am holding on to it for the next guy....I don't need to shoot 9/10 loads in it, They are all going to be different depending on how they lived the last XXX years. We need to treat them with care.

This is where I was going...

sorry for the long winded.
 
SpadeTrump said:
Yikes! It was totally unintentional but Iraqveteran8888 on YouTube did a torture test loading way to much unknown mixed shotgun/pistol/rifle powder and the rifle simply locked up. i think some internals bent / cracked but no damage would have occurred to shooter... still. I like my ex-dragoon and i spent a lot of time accurizing it. I ended up loading and shooting 25 more at 42 and 42.5 grains and was getting consistant 1-1.5 inch groups at 50 yards so im very thankful!
Click to expand...

Take everything you see on the internet with a grain of salt, some are better then others, but some people like iamanidiot888 is one you really need to watch close. There are some people that want you to think they are smarter then they are.....they are running a business....remember they are making money out of being total idiots.

That guy is a total clown and I would go as far to say if youtube banned all gun content to get rid of this idiot it would be a step in the correct direction.

He really is an idiot and needs to stick to the pawn shop.

This is the first time here or anywhere else I have ever called a person a dolt, I will call ideas, statements, feelings, whatever stupid, but try very hard not to call people stupid.....this guy is stupid.

Sorry, I know it will get nuked, but I so hate to see this dolt referenced in any way.
 
Aha! So, your wife's clever ploy to collect your life insurance almost worked.

collision-symbol_1f4a5.png
 
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fpgt72 said:
The difference between a "modern" sporting" rifle and a military rifle, let alone a military rifle from a country that did not have that easy of a go of it is pretty huge.

A few things to think about....you said used strong steel in 1928. Well yea, and at that time the bad guys are not a block from your house so pre war equipment MIGHT have a little more *cough* care, in putting them together. You have to remember in soviet russia....even in the late 20's their world was pretty far from set, they are still fighting wars with everyone around them from the whites, to the we want no guberment types in the south, poles in the west, people wanting to put the czar system up and going in the north....and we will not talk about fighting themselves....remember ole lovable uncle Joe was not the one to run the show.....Leon was the #2 guy.....and don't hold me to dates I am a bit fuzzy....but the thing to remember they are still in the 20's cranking them out as fast as they can.....and what we call quality control...was nothing....if a gun goes kaboom who cares, there is another guy right behind him we can use.....this is not the west, where things like that put the brakes on things......we have plenty of people to put behind them.

Now it living to this day says it is a safe rifle....ok. But now we have to look at just how it was taken care of.....how long did it sit in the mud after the first guy got killed and it was handed off to the second.....was Olga really thinking about coating cosmo on it, or was she worried that uncle Joe was going to use her husbands head for a new lamp shade.....and just how many holes did that warehouse have in it.....all of these are questions that come to mind when talking about surplus weapons, and soviet equipment gets a double down on all of this. There are too many things that come into the question.

So FOR ME in shooting this old stuff.....and really that is about all I have, I was going to say I can't think of the last "new" gun I bought, but I did buy a CZ 527 about 2-3 years ago.....but before or after that I am coming up blank. My interests lie in vintage stuff, not just military but sporting as well.

When looking at sporting guns....even vintage examples they usually....USUALLY get a bit of different care......it is an investment....my last model 81, you can tell was used quite a bit....finish gone around the rec. where you would carry it if in the field, and you can tell it has been in the woods, with scuffs and hits here and there....but you can also tell this was something that was taken care of. There are clues at looking at old items to see how it was taken care of.....if a car has a coat hanger for an antenna chances are it was not really taken care of that well (I just thought half the kids will have no idea what that last statement means)

Vintage stuff I look at as I am holding on to it for the next guy....I don't need to shoot 9/10 loads in it, They are all going to be different depending on how they lived the last XXX years. We need to treat them with care.

This is where I was going...

sorry for the long winded.
Click to expand...


Lol. Sometimes I feel that way about american-made products. I work with some really stupid people. My Harley really was a POS. You got your fat cheeseburger eating WWE watching millennials on their iPhones working for pay and benefits they don't appreciate... I wonder if it's that far off from Soviet quality? Just playing devil's advocate.
 
SpadeTrump said:
While shooting my wife came home from her mothers with all kinds of woman drama and pissed me off pretty good. I should have just stopped shooting for the day but i went back in and loaded 5 rounds at 52.5 grains!
Click to expand...
I was pissed at my girlfriend and carelessly overloaded some 10mm auto. I caught it though after about 10 rounds, pulled them and put everything away after correctly finishing the small batch.

I also solved the problem permanently by breaking up with my girlfriend.

Friends don't let friends load angry.
 
Thanx for the reminder...
Most every time I sit to reload I take a moment look at my lil hand made sign that says this $4it is DANGROUS be careful . And for a moment I reflect that from time to time my son and others may shoot my reloads and 9 times out out of 10 at the range with another shooter next to me.
I have seen a fella that lost an eye bolt went right into his head took his eye.
7mm Rem Mag with pistol powder didn't see it happen but saw him after.
Also saw a wheel gun come apart parts flew every direction.
Again thanx for the reminder!!
Remember it's not just you that can feel the effects of being distracted while reloading.
Getting off my soap box now.
 
When I first started reloading... it was all pistol. I was always very careful about overcharging. but I was a dumbass when it came to not charging at all. I must have had 30 squibs my first year. none after that. took me a while to figure out what a pain in the ass it is to remove them. glad i never messed a pistol up. never never never have overcharged anything.... i must have grown to confident.
 
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