125 grain Coated Lead 9mm

Any chance you could do a smash test on one and post a picture?

Lee Q. Loader said:

Brazos bullets ... 9mm ... truncated cone 125 grain ... sized ... .3555 ... Herco and BE 86

I plan on starting at 5.5 Herco and 5.1 BE 86 ... This will be my first experience with coated bullets, so if you have some advice for me, I'm all ears.

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Herco is a fluffy powder and to not compress powder charge, I used longer than typical OAL of 1.155"/1.160" for my load development with 124 gr plated RN (which I usually use 1.135") and 124 gr lead "stepped" RN (which I usually use 1.125").

I referenced 2004 Alliant load data for my Herco load development and published OAL used for 125 gr Lead bullet was longer 1.150" (Likely RN) - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

Look at the comparison picture of various nose profile bullets and notice significantly longer bullet base (bearing surface) of SWC/CN compared to two RN bullets on the right. The longer bullet base/bearing surface means bullet base will be seated deeper in the case neck which will increase chamber pressures.



Compared to 1.135" OAL I use with FMJ/RN bullets, I needed to seat the bullet deeper with bullets with longer bullet base/bearing surface.



The 124 gr truncated cone coated bullet you will be using will have similar profile as RMR 124 gr FP bullet and as you can see in below comparison picture, working OAL will likely be shorter than 1.130" used for RN and bullet base seated deeper in the case neck.



Since you are using truncated cone bullet, if you are going to end up with deeper bullet seating depth/shorter OAL than 1.150" listed on 2004 Alliant load data, you may need to reduce start/max powder charges. I suggest you first determine the max/working OAL and then calculate the max case fill which may result in reducing the powder charge further. You can calculate max case fill by subtracting bullet length from working OAL, then subtracting max case fill from average resized case length and marking the inside of case neck with tip of calipers and filling the case with powder to mark.

If you provide the working OAL and bullet length, I can calculate the Herco max case fill for you. Based on my experience, with the working OAL you will likely use, I would suggest you consider using 5.0 gr of Herco as start charge and test 5.2, 5.4 and 5.6 gr (Pending max case fill calculation based on working OAL) as you can always go higher.

FYI, here are my Herco range report using longer OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-and-herco-for-jacketed-lead-plated-bullets.745656/

124 gr Berry's plated HBRN:
5.2 gr @ 1.155" - very light recoil (barely cycled the slide)
5.8 gr @ 1.155" - light recoil
6.1 gr @ 1.155" - mild recoil

124 gr Z-Cast lead RN (stepped):
5.2 gr @ 1.160" - light recoil
5.8 gr @ 1.160" - mild recoil


As to BE-86, as many THR members already found out with FMJ/RN bullets, you want to END UP with 5.1 gr, and NOT START OUT at 5.1 gr.

Many report reliable slide cycling and accuracy trend building starting around 4.6 gr of BE-86 and 124 gr FMJ/RN at typical 1.130"-1.135" OAL. Once again, since you are using slightly larger sized coated truncated cone bullet that will likely be seated deeper in the case neck, I would suggest start charge of 4.4 gr and test 4.6, 4.8 and 5.0 gr.

Have you slugged the bore of your 9mm? Many of the new 9mm barrels are pretty large. I've seen more than one that requires a .358 bullet to prevent leading.

Texas10mm said:

Have you slugged the bore of your 9mm? Many of the new 9mm barrels are pretty large. I've seen more than one that requires a .358 bullet to prevent leading.

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I agree. I have several 9mm pistols (not sure how that happened....they just appeared...), and I shoot .358 sized lead in all of them.
Some are not all that new - Star 30M, Star BM, Astra A70.
Then, there's Mrs Thunkits' SCCY, and a few others. They all eat .358", the majority being home-cast Lee 358-125RF.

I believe OP is using Ruger SR9E as we have gone through BE-86 work up with different 9mm bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/be-86-reduced-loads-9mm.843090/

Lee Q. Loader said:

I shot these in my Ruger SR9e

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Due to deeper bullet seating depths various working OALs produced, more conservative powder charges were suggested after OP reported stout recoil - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/mini-mpr-be-86.852316/

Lee Q. Loader said:

When I got my first pound of BE-86 I decided to use it with RMR 124gr MPR. I did what I always do with Alliant powders and reduced the charges listed in the book by 10%. This gave me a starting load of 5.3gr. From there I worked up to 5.6, but decided I like 5.5 grs at OAL 1.08.

... 5.5 gr loads and really decided I didn't like them. The sole reason was the recoil, it was starting to feel like my 357 mag

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In those threads, I suggested when deeper than published bullet seating depth/OAL is used, especially with larger sized bullet that will likely produce greater chamber pressures, it is a good idea to reduce published start/max charges to compensate. And if published load data used FMJ/RN but when using TC/FP/JHP bullets that will get seated deeper, we may need to reduce the start charge below the 10% reduction of max charge.

While Hi-Tek coating will prevent leading to muzzle velocities beyond jacketed load data, due to larger diameter sizing, I still prefer to reference lead load data when initially conducting load development and range testing as we can always go higher.

I'm wondering how many reloaders who tell others to slug the barrel have really done it themselves of just say it because a lot of people say it? Not aimed at anyone in particular but sometimes I think there are those who repeat what they hear over and over just to sound smart by regurgitating what everyone else is saying.

ArchAngelCD said:

I'm wondering how many reloaders who tell others to slug the barrel have really done it themselves of just say it because a lot of people say it?

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I have slugged my barrels (KKM, Lone Wolf, Tactical Kinetics, Glock, etc.) and they range from .355" to .356" and have worked well with .355"-.356" sized jacketed/plated/lead/coated lead bullets to produce accuracy. There are many THR members who posted various factory barrels around .356" to even .357"+ and reported accuracy issues and tumbling with .355"/.356" sized bullets as evidenced by elongated/sideways bullet profile holes on target.

When a new member PM'ed me because he was not getting accuracy with .356" sized MBC lead bullets and was frustrated because many of us reported good accuracy with the same bullets, I asked him to slug the barrel and groove-to-groove diameter was .357"+. Since he was hoping to shooting bullseye matches, I urged he contact Ruger customer service. When he was told .355" to .357"+ was acceptable range for 9mm barrel groove diameter, I told him to speak to a technician as he needed to shoot bullseye matches using .356" sized commercial lead bullets. When he explained to a technician he was getting poor accuracy with .356" sized lead bullets, he was sent a .355" sized barrel and accuracy improved.

Lee Q. Loader said:

I've not slugged this barrel. I have noticed better accuracy with .356 bullets than .355.

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I am suspecting your barrel maybe oversized as many factory barrels' groove-to-groove diameters are .356"+. If that's the case, higher powder charges will be needed to produce same velocities as .355" to .356" sized barrels. There are other variables such as rifling type, leade length, angle of start of rifling, etc. but we will leave that discussion out for now.

For general posting purposes on THR; since there are many reloading variables, I often tend to lean towards posting more conservative start charges for initial powder work up (in case member's barrel is on tighter side of .355"-.356"), especially with bullets that will be seated deeper in the case neck (which increases chamber pressure) as if barrel used is oversized, members simply keep testing higher powder charges until slide cycles reliably and accuracy trend is identified.

As many often post, it's best to start low and go higher.

@bds, I have no doubt you did slug all your barrels. I was referring to most, not all who say it on many forums.

Oh, I know you weren't talking about me.

Super sorry about not providing enough details about the "smash test". One of the test methods of checking the coating adhesion to cast bullets is to hammer it flat in order to check if the coating has adhered to the bullet. If the coating flakes off then it is considered to have failed.

FWIW:
I've used/shot nothing but .358" bullets in several different 9mm's for decades.

In looking thru the options listed by the OP's preferred bullet company, their sample packs consist of 5 lbs and only are $17.99 which includes shipping! That's a killer deal!

Lee Q. Loader said:

This will be my first experience with coated bullets, so if you have some advice for me, I'm all ears.

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With coated bullets, you need to make sure the case is belled just a bit more than with jacketed or plated bullets. You'll know when it's not enough when you see bits of coating flaked off and on your shell plates. You may also see shards of lead along the rim if expansion isn't wide enough. The coating smoothness also has a lot to do with it and from your pictures those Brazo's aren't the smoothest I've seen, but may be smoother in person. Some of the smoothest I've seen are SNS coated bullets.

Checked my data, and my most accurate 9mm is a SNS 125gn coated round nose and 4.7gn of BE-86. 1076fps from a 5" 1911, and 1005fps from a 3.1" Shield.

BC17A said:

bds said:

since you are using slightly larger sized coated truncated cone bullet that will likely be seated deeper in the case neck, I would suggest start charge of 4.4 gr and test 4.6, 4.8 and 5.0 gr.

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my most accurate 9mm is a SNS 125gn coated round nose and 4.7gn of BE-86. 1076fps from a 5" 1911, and 1005fps from a 3.1" Shield.

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Nice to have confirmation.

If OP's barrel has larger groove diameter, may require higher powder charges than our loads.

nevadabob said:

[Brazos Bullet Company], their sample packs consist of 5 lbs and only are $17.99 which includes shipping! That's a killer deal!

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And reason why I added Brazos Bullet Company to the list of vendors on our "Where are there components for sale" thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ponents-on-sale.707473/page-178#post-11161685

BTW, Brazos is offering 10% off with discount code HIGHROAD1901 until 6/30/19 on Hi Tek coated or wax lubed bullets and free shipping on 60 lbs or more - http://www.brazosprecision.com/Lead-Bullets_c_1.html

ArchAngelCD said:

I'm wondering how many reloaders who tell others to slug the barrel have really done it themselves of just say it because a lot of people say it? Not aimed at anyone in particular but sometimes I think there are those who repeat what they hear over and over just to sound smart by regurgitating what everyone else is saying.

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I've slugged all my 9mm pistol barrels. They range from .355 to .357. I've slugged all my .45 ACP barrels and they are a boring .451 across the board. I've slugged my 10mm barrels and they are a boring .401.

I still need to slug my revolvers, but they're all shooting quite well and with no leading so slugging them is a low priority task.

The one 9mm pistol with the .357 bore sits in the safe, the rest all get shot with .357 bullets.

The .38 Spl and the .357 Mag get .358 bullets. The .44 Mag gets .431 bullets, the .327 Fed Mag gets .314 bullets. The .45 ACPs get .452 bullets.

If in doubt go large.

They look good. Maybe a little flaking on the one on the left, but it had a lot of displaced lead from smashing. Thank you for sacrificing two bullets to show the quality of the coating.

Almost bought that bullet from Brazos to try but ended up with the 115gr instead. I’ve read good things about them so far. My bullets should have been here Saturday but the postal worker decided they didn’t want to deliver the heavy package.