Iver Johnson Top-Break 38 or 32 & how old?

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Mikie J

Mikie J

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I have an Iver Johnson Top-Break .38. It's been in my family for generations. I think it's a .38. It has a 4 digit serial number. The S/N is Q8727 under the handle. The trigger guard shows 8727. Along the top of the barrel it's stamped "Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Fitchburg Mass USA" The butt of the handle has "PAT. JUNE 16, 96 AUG 25,96 PAT'S PENDING"

Originally I thought it was a .32 caliber, but I've seen a nearly exact match in another post. So I'm thinking it may be a .38 black powder only. It's fully functional however I don't want to use any modern ammo in the weapon. I know this weapon's never been shot in my lifetime while it was kept in my father's dresser. However it seems to operate perfectly. I'm trying to date it and all the info i find states 5 digit serial numbers. This only has 4.

Any Info would be appreciated!! Thanks in advance!! Photos are below. IMG_2703.jpeg IMG_2704.jpeg IMG_2701.jpeg IMG_2700.jpeg IMG_2697.jpeg IMG_2690.jpeg IMG_2692.jpeg
 
You have a blackpowder era model for certain. The orientation of the owls head on the grips is often cited as a good way to tell, however noting the longer single cut cylinder stop notches present is the more reliable way. Caliber is harder to tell by looking at a picture with no scale. Maybe put it next to a dollar bill?
 
Looks like a .38 S&W (not a .38 Special!) to me. I can send you an empty piece of brass so you can see if it fits, if you want.
 
This is a catalog image from 1908

nHXDOIN.jpg

I really have no idea how to date these revolvers. Even though massive numbers had to have been made, they don't have an association with Cowboys, famous Gunfighters, and they were cheap when they were made.

I have noticed the same problem with Russell Green River knives, made since the 1830's. Massive numbers made, all cheap, and hardly any way to date them other than if the name was stamped or acid etched. And when that transition happened is mostly faith based from the documentation I have seen.

This one is from the bicentennial

UTwaRL8.jpg

but try to prove one was made around the centennial..Sort of like your pistol, it will be hard dating it, unless you have the sales receipt.
 
Looks like a .38 to me, the 5 shot .32 top breaks usually were chambered for .32 S&W Short, not Long and thus had short cylinders.
 
Bill Goforth published a book on these. I've been looking for a copy for several years that isn't ridiculously priced. It would answer all of your questions. He also published a book on H&R firearms. I wish we still had him as a resoure but the hobby lost Bill several years ago. Bill was active on a couple of forums and answered a lot of questions similar to your question. Try finding them and you may get lucky and find your exact question answered.

Dating these is a matter of determining the features, serial number and patent dates. So be meticulous in figuring what you have.

Bill was active on 'The Firearms Forum'
 
This is a .38 Safety Automatic (2nd Model) made prior to 1909. It is a 'BP gun,' but IJ continued to make this model under the trade-brand 'US Revolver,' using old 'BP' parts and said they were 'proofed for smokeless.' Provided it is in good mechanical condition I wouldn't worry about shooting modern factory ammo through it- apparently IJ wasn't...
 
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Michael Tinker Pearce said:
This is a .38 Safety Automatic (2nd Model) made prior to 1909. It is a 'BP gun,' but IJ continued to make this model under the trade-brand 'US Revolver,' using old 'BP' parts and said they were 'proofed for smokeless.' Provided it is in good mechanical condition I wouldn't worry about shooting modern factory ammo through it- apparently IJ wasn't...
Click to expand...

I have an 1898 (I believe. I would love help narrowing the date of manufacture if you know any resources), which was very tight when I got it. I made proper BP ammo to shoot in it, but also put about 12 rounds of FN 380 IIz through it over the course of a couple years. It survived, but also does now display significant play in the latch. I won't fire it until I can repair it.

Limited standard .38S&W lrn loads probably won't cause this much wear, but people should be cautious not to push it too far.
 
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Johnm1 said:
Bill Goforth published a book on these. I've been looking for a copy for several years that isn't ridiculously priced.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I found a used copy of Goforth's book at alibris.com for something like $150. :confused:

Then I discovered that new softcover copies are available at gunshowbooks.com for a much more reasonable $50.
 
That is great news. I hope his family is still receiving a benefit from the books.

Thanks!
 
RevolvingGarbage said:
I have an 1898 (I believe. I would love help narrowing the date of manufacture if you know any resources), which was very tight when I got it. I made proper BP ammo to shoot in it, but also put about 12 rounds of FN 380 IIz through it over the course of a couple years. It survived, but also does now display significant play in the latch. I won't fire it until I can repair it.

Limited standard .38S&W lrn loads probably won't cause this much wear, but people should be cautious not to push it too far.
Click to expand...

I should have been more specific- American standard factory loads (147gr.RNL,) which are quite anemic, should be OK. They actually produce significantly less recoil force than BP loads. British .380 Revolver should NOT be fired in this or any American-made top-break revolver, and I am deeply sceptical about Fiocchi's ammunition. Remington still loads this, and their loads are designed not to break the worst revolver ever made, so they should be OK.
 
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