Subsonic 454 Casull?

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toledo

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I'm threading a Browning High Wall to shoot deer and pigs in the 50-60 yard range. Already have 300 grn gold dots and a can of trail boss. Gun has a 28" barrel. Any recommendations for a load to start with on my search for around 1060fps? Ive done a bunch of searching but all I can find is light loads for pistol length barrels. Also a recommendation on primers? Thanks!
 
You're going to have a compressed (BAD) load w/ Trailboss to reach that velocity

For 1,050fps/>50% Fill/100%Burn/StdPrimer, I suggest:
Powder ....... Wt (gr) fill (%) Pmax (psi)
AlliantREDDOT 6.3 53 20,581
Hodgdon Clays 6.5 57 26,441
 
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I'd think most the magnum powders would be too slow. That's a pretty sedate velocity for a handgun barrel. To get that velocity out of a rifle barrel I'd try Unique or maybe something even faster. You could most likely get away with using 45LC brass even.

4227 will burn real dirty at lower pressure and leave flakes EVERYWHERE.
 
Most any light load for pistol should work in the rifle. Getting down to 1000fps in a 28" barrel with a jacketed/bonded bullet tends to make me think there's a chance for a stuck bullet. Why the desire for such a slow bullet in .454?
 
Thanks for the info. What would a full load of trail boss be without compressing? I may try that and just see what I get.

I'll watch for stuck bullets. I'm thinking at 28" the bullet will possibly be slowing back down.

How would tite group do? I already have that powder too.

I want to be subsonic to shoot through a suppressor.
 
I like @MEHavey suggestion of RedDot. It doesn't meter real well, but is a very economical clean burning versatile powder for reduced loads in just about any cartridge in my experience.

Works real well at "special" velocities and reduced cast bullet rifle cartridges.
 
I understand the loads for pistols and rifles are the same. What I meant was I could only find velocities out of pistol length barrels.

Once I find consistency in velocity and settle on a load, can I rule out the stuck bullet concern? If Im getting 1050, 1060, 1055, 1065, at the chrono can I put that concern to bed while in the field?

Ive already done this same thing with 357 loads out of a 16" barrel but the long barrel is new territory for me.
 
In my OPINION, if you can blow a bullet out at a consistent 1050 fps or so, you are not at much risk of sticking a bullet.

Beware of powder position effects. The one advantage of Trail Boss is that it loads 70-100% of the volume. Titegroup is dense and a lot more variable by position than they advertise. You might have to raise the muzzle for every shot.

AA5744 would be worth a look. See loads for .45 Ruger and .454 Casul at
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf
 
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Once I find consistency in velocity and settle on a load, can I rule out the stuck bullet concern? If Im getting 1050, 1060, 1055, 1065, at the chrono can I put that concern to bed while in the field?

Ive already done this same thing with 357 loads out of a 16" barrel but the long barrel is new territory for me.

Iffin you are consistently getting 1050 or better at the chrono, you should be fine. Gold Dot/Deep Curls are a pretty slippery bullet. Under 1000, I'd start to worry. When I look to download for my handgun caliber carbines, I try to stick with a load that shows 800fps or more from a revolver, that pretty much guarantees I'll get 1000fps or better from the rifle.
 
Usually with handguns any load under 600 FPS starts to get erratic and a chance of a squib becomes possible. If you can get a constant 1000 to 1050 FPS I wouldn't be concerned at all. If your load is getting 700-800 FPS with wide variations, I would start to get concerned that a light load could become an issue with that excessively long barrel.
 
28" barrel
TiteGroup @7.0gr will work at 1,050fps, but it's only 1/3 available case volume under the bullet fill.
Trailboss @7.5gr (95% fill) goes out at only 960fps*
5744, the old large-case standby, leaves the barrel w/~40% of the powder unburned at 1,050fps

*DON'T mess w/ TrailBoss under any compression at all.




Remember, RedDot and Clays were recommend very specifically for Case-fill, Burn, and desired Velocity.
 
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You can go pretty low with the right bullet and powder and have nothing to worry about.

Years ago I played a gun game where lots of us revolver shooters shot 230 gn bullets to 125 PF, I loaded to a tad over 135 but that was still under 600 FPS, you could see the bullets in flight. Won a number of matches and never stuck a bullet.

IIRC the load was 2.8 gn of clays.
 
Thanks for all the thoughts. I see on the Hodgdon page, a 454 trailboss load of 8.0 grns and 865/fps out of a 9" barrel. Im really hoping that will come out where I want it. There's also a 45 colt load of 5.2, 5.8, 7.5 and 9.0 grns of titegroup. Since I'll already be heading to the range, I may try titegroup at 7, 7.5, 8.0, and 8.5 grns just to see what it gives. I'm guessing at 28" some loads will start to slow back down before exiting.

This site shows the 454 case volume to be 10.63% more than 45 colt. http://kwk.us/cases.html Less than I first suspected. The 454 is longer but I found this pic of the two. It shows how much thicker the 454 brass is.

standard.jpg
 
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that case on the right, in that pic, is the old "balloon head" style. that case is no longer made. all currently manufactured 45 colt cases look like the pic on the left and can easily handle 50,000 psi in a 454 casull chambered weapon.

so, splurge and buy a bag of starline 45 colt cases and load em up how you want em.

murf
 
As murf said, you won’t find a case like the right one these days.
 
The 454 is longer but I found this pic of the two. It shows how much thicker the 454 brass is.

index.php

You’ve either been lied to, or are trying to lie yourself.

That is NOT a photo of 454c vs. 45 colt brass, it’s a photo of modern 45 colt vs. old balloon head 45 colt.
 
I see on the Hodgdon page, a 454 trailboss load of 8.0 grns and 865/fps out of a 9" barrel.
Take care with a long barrel. The bullet is actually SLOWING down rather dramatically
from friction after 5-8" with a powder like TrailBoss. In fact it can lose as much as 1/2 its velocity.

Make sure you take a chronograph to the range
 
you basically told gotboostvr, "you are wrong and here is the proof". I suggest you apologize because, for whatever reason, you are wrong.

there is nothing wrong with disregarding the good advise you have been given in this post. there are others looking on that need to understand that you have been given that good advise by all who have posted. they also need to understand that you posted incorrect information in post #17. that is important.

luck,

murf
 
Varminterror rubs me the wrong way. Six days out of seven, he's rude, abrasive, and unnecessarily combative.

But he is correct.

And btw OP, subsonic 454? It's called 45 LC. Trail Boss is a terrible powder for your intended use. Take the good advice freely given.

^^^gotta agree with LRDGCO

Primer pockets measure the same in the photo. .45 Colt uses LP, .454 uses SR.
 
Any recommendations for a load to start with on my search for around 1060fps?
I think jmorris gave you a clue with data using Accurate 5744, I would guess IMR 4759 would be another powder to consider.
If I tried those and it didn't work I would consider 2400. Just a guess, with no experience with your situation.
 
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