Gun Owners Outraged as New Zealand Government Refuses to Pay Full Price

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It troubles me that the money is the first thing on some people's minds, as opposed to keeping their firearms.
 
It troubles me that the money is the first thing on some people's minds, as opposed to keeping their firearms.
This only emphasizes that it's BOTH theft AND fraud.

Anybody who trusts anti-gun cultists gets what he deserves. You've got a better chance of coming out ahead in a "404" scam with a Nigerian "prince".
 
"Gun owners in New Zealand are outraged that the government is doing a forced buyback of "military style" semiautomatic rifles but refusing to pay full price for the firearms."

Seems to me that the gun owners of New Zealand have misplaced their outrage.

They're peeved that the government isn't paying "full price" for their guns, but have completely glossed over the fact that THEIR GOVERNMENT CANNOT "BUY BACK" FIREARMS THEY NEVER SOLD TO THEIR CITIZENS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

AND...their government is using TAX money (read: money they took from their citizens in the first place) to take something ELSE from their citizens.

Place their outrage in the right place and MAYBE they'll be able to do something about it. IF they're willing to back it up.

Until then...
 
The general principle is that the government pays compensation for a "taking" equal to the market value. (At least that's how it works in the U.S.) But in the case of highly regulated items, such as guns, government actions strongly influence the market value. A good example of that is the price of machine guns, after the Hughes Amendment, going through the roof. If the U.S. government were to "take" machine guns now, it would have to pay much higher prices than what it would have paid prior to the Hughes Amendment.

In New Zealand, the very act of outlawing the weapons in question reduced their value to next to nothing (even talk of a ban would have that effect). Therefore the claims for compensation would be very limited.
 
Keep in mind that "buy back" is just another word for confiscation. And "universal background checks" is the first step. DO NOT be fooled to think otherwise.
That's all well and good, but the tide may be running against us. What happens if gun owners get outvoted? We may be forced to make the best of a bad situation. Life isn't fair.
 
n their mind they are. How much would you pay to become a felon? If your law abiding, $0.00 is the correct answer. So your firearm is worthless and at least they are throwing you a bone, so to speak, by giving you any compensation for the loss of your arms and rights.

Where to start with the mentality of, 'at least they are throwing you a bone'.....Seriously, not try to be a jerk but it sounds like you would be in line turning yours in and getting whatever you can from the government that just stole your guns and right to defend yourself with lethal means and you are becoming a felon because the government is putting you in a position of giving up your God given rights to self defense. You do understand that just like in Britan for example knives will be outlawed next. Then believe it or not you will be easily prosecuted for defending yourself against an attacker and thrown in jail for said action just like in Britan now.
The slippery slope is never ending with the people who want to rule over you. Once they have our guns we are subjects of the crown. We are no longer citizens with power and rights. When Americans turn in their guns freedom not only in this country but worldwide will become a thing of the past, quickly.
Do not comply.
The youngest country in the world defeated the most powerful military in the world a couple hundred years ago when the people were ordered to turn in their guns. Had they complied we would still be subjects not citizens.
DO NOT COMPLY
 
So the governments actions of causing the value of firearms to drop to near nothing in the governments favor makes it ok for them to pay very low prices for the guns the fools turn in? I hope you are not justifying this. If so, i suspect you are ok with confiscation because that is what a buyback is, forced confiscation. The government forces the gun owner to comply or become a felon. Oh well, our forefathers faced this decision back in 1775. On April 19, 1775 when the Brits came for the guns they got their answer: 'The Shot heard round the World'.
Will we once again have the same answer for our own politicians who now want us once again to turn in our guns and submit or will we respond like men and not just tell them no, but tell them, Hell no?
I guess it depends on how much we value our same human rights and freedoms.
Thank God our forefathers had a spine and the correct answer for themselves and posterity.
Molon Labe
 
We all thought democracy was a great idea, that is until we find ourselves in the minority. The patriots who rebelled against England were lawbreakers. We who wish to remain free are rapidly approaching the same type of decision in our country.
Most on this forum will turn in their guns if it becomes the law of the land. Talk is cheap. Actually breaking the law and risking imprisonment is a huge step for the average person.
 
I have been involved with state and local government in two different cases where they wanted my property. It's called eminent domain for those of you that don't know.
You have very few rights and have to fight like hell to even get close to market value for your property. They are absolute bastards to deal with in that the appraisers are licensed By the same crooks who are doing the taking. It's a lot like a judge who works for the state being impartial in a citizen suit against said state. Fat chance for the Citizen.
The criminal justice system does the same thing to the accused day in and day out in our country. First they threaten you with horrendous results If you don't accept what they're offering, whether a plea deal or payment in kind. Then you're forced to take a deal in order to stay out of jail or to keep from spending all your money on a lawsuit.
Our day-to-day freedom is in illusion based on our anonymity and not being noticed by the system that's in place. Once you are noticed because of something you did or something that the government wants from you, you then lose your rights and your freedom.
BTW I do not have a criminal record of any kind. Just reporting that what happens around us every day.
 
@Casefull

You are right on every count. Indeed most will turn in their guns if and when the order is given. It is unfortunate that freedom today is not as highly revered as it was in colonial days when freedom was everything. The majority of men and women in colonial days would rather die free than live in bondage and subject to a tyrant ruler. It is never good for the people of a country to be unarmed and at the mercy of a ruthless government and criminal elements. I fear that the vast majority of people today do not understand what can happen to them once the balance of power swings from the people to the government.
 
I read once that George Washington would have been arrested for not obeying a traffic officer. I.e. what business is it of yours to stop me as I travel from one place to another, am I not a freeman.
If we do not insist on our freedom then we will no longer be free. I say we start resisting in any little way that we can. Don't let authorities push you around, make it as difficult as possible until they return to treating us with respect, after all I pay their wages as do you all, they are our employees whether they work for the CIA, FBI, ETF, NSA, etc.
We have been lied to and fooled into thinking that it is patriotic to obey authority. That is only true if said authority treats us as innocent freeman with respect until proven otherwise.
 
We all thought democracy was a great idea, that is until we find ourselves in the minority. The patriots who rebelled against England were lawbreakers. We who wish to remain free are rapidly approaching the same type of decision in our country.
Most on this forum will turn in their guns if it becomes the law of the land. Talk is cheap. Actually breaking the law and risking imprisonment is a huge step for the average person.

The United States of America is not now nor has it ever been a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. As much as the Left would try and make us a Democracy we are not. That's another thing we should resist at all costs.
 
@Casefull

You are right on every count. Indeed most will turn in their guns if and when the order is given. It is unfortunate that freedom today is not as highly revered as it was in colonial days when freedom was everything. The majority of men and women in colonial days would rather die free than live in bondage and subject to a tyrant ruler. It is never good for the people of a country to be unarmed and at the mercy of a ruthless government and criminal elements. I fear that the vast majority of people today do not understand what can happen to them once the balance of power swings from the people to the government.

Only around 3% of people in the colonies ever actively resisted the British.

3% of the population now would be almost 10 million resistors.
 
The United States of America is not now nor has it ever been a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. As much as the Left would try and make us a Democracy we are not. That's another thing we should resist at all costs.

I know that and I agree with you completely. The fact that we are a republic is not affecting what is happening. At best it is only delaying and maybe slightly hindering the totalitarian push that is coming from the bureaucratic state and our police and intelligence agencies who by their very nature need control to make their jobs easier.
 
So the governments actions of causing the value of firearms to drop to near nothing in the governments favor makes it ok for them to pay very low prices for the guns the fools turn in? I hope you are not justifying this. If so, i suspect you are ok with confiscation because that is what a buyback is, forced confiscation.
No, I am certainly not OK with confiscation.

The way I understand it, in New Zealand they are being forced to turn in complete guns. I don't think it would play out that way in the U.S., because guns have long been defined as consisting of one critical part -- in the case of the AR-15, it's the lower receiver. So, you would presumably turn in the lower receiver and keep the rest. What you did with the remainder of the gun would be your business.
 
The United States of America is not now nor has it ever been a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. As much as the Left would try and make us a Democracy we are not. That's another thing we should resist at all costs.
I disagree with this completely. But perhaps this is not the place to argue political philosophy.
 
No, I am certainly not OK with confiscation.

The way I understand it, in New Zealand they are being forced to turn in complete guns. I don't think it would play out that way in the U.S., because guns have long been defined as consisting of one critical part -- in the case of the AR-15, it's the lower receiver. So, you would presumably turn in the lower receiver and keep the rest. What you did with the remainder of the gun would be your business.

I cannot imagine why you think it would not be complete guns. The fact that ARs are registered on the lower receiver has little to do with Firearms overall.
 
No, I am certainly not OK with confiscation.

The way I understand it, in New Zealand they are being forced to turn in complete guns. I don't think it would play out that way in the U.S., because guns have long been defined as consisting of one critical part -- in the case of the AR-15, it's the lower receiver. So, you would presumably turn in the lower receiver and keep the rest. What you did with the remainder of the gun would be your business.

So, we may be getting a little off topic but o:k. I don't presume to know it all but I do not recall hearing of any country who did any form of gun confiscation requiring just the serialized part of the gun. So, not sure why the gun grabbers here in the USA would require Americans to turn in only the serialized portion of any gun rather than the gun in its entirety. The grabbers here are not interested in part of the gun they will want the entire gun and ALL the guns the gun owners have. Thereby leaving us nothing but pitchforks and dinner knives. That will last until they come after the pitchforks and knives at a later date.
The powers to be can not have their subjects armed and able to effect change. So, on another note.
It is great that we can have these discussions but what I really want to see is a massive campaign from gun owners letting our elected officials know to stand down from treading on the rights of law abiding citizens who just happen to own guns. They must be reminded they work for us and their jobs can be terminated.
We as gun owners are all in this together.
 
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