Or service grade $90. (1983)
After cleaning up and accurizing:
After eyes gave out had to make other arrangements:
Spoiled her girlish figure, but gotta love it when a plan comes together:
Regards,
hps
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How Come M1-Type Rifles Cost so Much?
- Thread starter Swifty Morgan
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After cleaning up and accurizing:
After eyes gave out had to make other arrangements:
Spoiled her girlish figure, but gotta love it when a plan comes together:
Regards,
hps
theotherwaldo
Member
So, if someone built an M-1 using a gas system similar to an AK or SKS and chambered it in something like 6.5 or 7mm Mauser, would that fill the bill? Would YOU buy it?
Is it the machine or the mystique?
Is it the machine or the mystique?
It is greed when you use every resource available to get access to every item available at say the...CMP....tne take those same items to gun shows and sell (not ask) them for thousands.
That is not ethical pal.
Nature Boy
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People who buy a Garand at a gun shows and pay gun show prices also have the opportunity to meet the CMP requirements to purchase one direct for less, right? If for some reason they can’t, or don’t want to go through the hassle, or would rather put their hands and eyeballs on a Garand before they buy it, they’ve made the calculation that paying more is worth it.
Not sure how ethics plays into that.
badkarmamib
Member
@Nature Boy that was one of my fears when I ordered mine, that I would be out $750 on an eyesore that couldn't group. I completely understand why one would choose to buy one that they can check first. Of course, on the flip side, is no warranty, hoping you know that it isn't a reweld (if you aren't allowed to thoroughly inspect it), and such.
FlSwampRat
Member
I'm not quite sure what you mean. If you're talking about cornering the market on some item(s) and becoming the only source for that thing or things, you can offer it for sale at whatever price you want, no one is forced to buy it. I think, however, it would involve a vast investment to do such a thing unless the item is rare enough that there are few available in the first place, in which case the rarity would have already driven the price up. Everyone equally has "access" to things, just not the ownership of them to offer them for sale at a gun show or elsewhere.
It is business. Unless the item is needed for life and health or the seller is taking advantage of a natural disaster (for example, gouging on the price of generators, coolers, ice, etc. after a hurricane) it's simply doing your best to maximize profit on an investment.
I did not think the CMP should be a warehouse for others to make money....however if you want an M1 check out cabelas...last gun show I was at they bought the entire table...about 20 rifles.
wojownik
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kbob gave a pretty solid response to that (quoted below). Production ceased about 65 years ago (finite quantity=scarcity) for an item that is still very much desirable today (=demand). Limited quantity+continued demand = higher pricing.
And, just as a point of comparison - as kbob also notes - the .gov production cost for an M1 back then was - adjusted for dollars - a bit closer to $1,035 (841.5% increase over time). And that is the production cost. Retail cost would be significantly higher. So, tack on another 40% (just for bare bones starters), and voila ... market pricing of the M1 Garand is actually pretty reasonable and defensible by that comparison.
Another comparison: the lowly Mosin-Nagant rifle from Russia. I bought bunches of these back in the day for $79. I have a closet full of the darn things lol. They are trending upwards of $300 now... why? scarcity (out of production PLUS import restrictions) + some demand = higher pricing. The market pricing for Mosins has increased over 300% over the past two decades.
The Mosin will eventually meet its ceiling - where pricing hits its ceiling as the market (demand) says ... nah, not at that price.
The Garand may eventuallly hit its ceiling - but I predict that ceiling will be much higher in future decades for this iconic rifle ... especially if (and when) the CMP runs out of inventory.
badkarmamib
Member
The CMP has a limit of 8 rifles and/or receivers per person, per year. An individual who wants a rifle for personal use has the exact same rights and chances as someone looking to just make a profit. Simply put, some people are simply unwilling to do the necessary legwork. If so, let a dealer do it for you, and you can pick out exactly what you want out of the inventory, for a fee.
Mosin Bubba
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That's basically a Mini-14, they don't sell worth a darn and they still cost an arm and a leg to produce. Either that or Ruger is gouging like heck with them, but I don't ever remember them being very cheap guns. Today's price of $800 for a NIB ranch rifle is ridiculous.
P5 Guy
Member
Or service grade $90. (1983)
After cleaning up and accurizing:
View attachment 848544
After eyes gave out had to make other arrangements:
View attachment 848545
Spoiled her girlish figure, but gotta love it when a plan comes together:
View attachment 848547
Regards,
hps
I am not as old as you are, sir.
theotherwaldo
Member
-Well, maybe almost a Mini-30... .
Varminterror
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Springfield was making Garands only a handful of years ago. They quit making them for a reason.
Applying supply and demand market dynamics to collectible items never holds much water. Prices can skyrocket if a very small collector base REALLY want a product out of limited existing stock.
Mosin pricing is also poor evidence of “supply and demand.” In that particular case, we do have some collector value driven on finer models, but NOW we’re pricing the average rack grade mosin against comparable item pricing. Their price was lower in the past because they were readily available. It didn’t matter what comparable products cost - not much at least - as the margin on the surplus rifles was plenty at that time, and the pipeline was sustained. We could live on a “Walmart model,” where lower margins on infinite supply was fine. Now, the pipeline is dry, and they’re just another model in a pool of low grade bolt rifles, and are priced accordingly. If Savage and Ruger suddenly started selling Axises and Americans at $150 each, how much do you think we’d have to price Mosins to compete? Many vendors who used to have a rack full of Mosins no longer stock them, and less and less high school kids who are buying their first “own rifle” are picking up Mosins. The average consumer demand is less for surplus rifles. The guys who want them REALLY want them, and the rest of us who just want a bolt action rifle don’t really want Mosins, but will buy them if they are cheaper than the other models on the rack.
Market influences and pricing mechanics are a little more complex than simply saying “supply and demand...”
Don't feel too badly, not too many people are.
An even better deal that the 90$ Garand were the two 1903A3's from DCM (through NRA) for less than $20 apiece (one as new in cosmoline, the other as new sealed in tinfoil packet).Heck, I'm so old I can't remember exact price or even the year that they were released.
Regards,
hps
wojownik
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Springfield Armory (.gov) stopped producing the M1 Garand in the 1950s. Springfield Inc. (the company that licenses the Springfield name) made commercial copies (cast receiver) in early 1980s for a couple of years, and stopped about 25 years ago. These were the 7 million serial number garands (my dad had one, complained of all sorts of issues I didn't understand at the time).
Springfield Inc. took several gut punches on that product - quality control issues, a change in CMP policy (once-in-a-lifetime became once-a-year, and overseas imports started to come into the market. Springfield was competing with their "inferior" commercial copy in the $1,100 range, against CMP and import "real" Garands in the $500 range. Bad timing, high production costs, and quality control issues, all coming back to bite them.
An economist probably would not agree with you - there are numerous supply and demand models for collectibles. I remember a text for this I used back in college - like Mike Stoller's "Economics of Collectible Goods" - still have that dog-eared book in my home office.
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I had a .308/7.62 match M1 rifle built by a retired army armorer in 1983. He used one of the Springfield Armory receivers and it served me well. Receiver was only SA part used, however.
Norinco was also making an M1 at the time. A friend bought one and the rear sight elevation grooves in the receiver wore down very quickly, indicating receiver was soft. Must have been common because someone came out with a hardened sheet metal "washer" that could be put between elevation knob and receiver to restore the "clicks".
ETA: I'm beginning to think the Norinco might have been an M1A. It's been nearly 40 years and he had both an M1 and an M1A???
Regards,
hps
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Nature Boy
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I believe the Norinco M1As were forged receivers
CapnMac
Member
It's the mechanics.
If you shorten the gas system and use a detachable magazine, it's an M-14; similar but not the same.
The Garand is still a Garand in .30-06, in .308, even in .276. Technically, you could barrel one in 7mm or 6.5x55; hard part would be machining the en bloc clips for those cartridges (which would actually be a middling huge undertaking). But, those would still be Garands (if cool as all get-out Garands [
]).
Garandimal
member
It's the mechanics.
If you shorten the gas system and use a detachable magazine, it's an M-14; similar but not the same.
The Garand is still a Garand in .30-06, in .308, even in .276. Technically, you could barrel one in 7mm or 6.5x55; hard part would be machining the en bloc clips for those cartridges (which would actually be a middling huge undertaking). But, those would still be Garands (if cool as all get-out Garands [
No particular reason why the OEM enbloc clips wouldn't work w/ the 6.5x55.
Works for both the .30-06 and .308.
And, after recently moving into that cartridge, it is an attractive concept.
GR
az_imuth
Member
The Garand prices through CMP have gradually crept up over the years and I suspect that they will continue that trend until they are all gone. Just like the 1903, 1903A3, M1917 and the carbines...once they're gone, they're gone. I've picked up a number of them over the years and still have most of them. The one I now shoot the most is one that I built up from a bare receiver into a .308 caliber rifle. Shoots very well and surplus ammo is still out there and priced quite a bit less than the 30-06.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
The law of supply and demand are at play. Finite supply and no so finite demand. If those that some are calling gouging had no market, then prices would drop. If it was truly gouging, then others would be encouraged by the prices to also sell their M1 rifles. Then supply would go up and with demand the same, prices would also go down. High prices at a certain point encourage other to enter the market. Thereby lowering prices.
kBob
Member
There was an out fit I believe called National Arms that made M1s with new made recievers before Springfield Arms (civvies) made theirs. They also quickly got a bad rep
I suffered greatly from buying in the mid 1970s a reweld M1 and I understand these are still floating about. The government demilled rifles buy cutting the receiver in half and used no jig help make the cut so sometimes the recievers were cut at different places. folks wanting to build a garand would buy a batch of such scrap and find two pieces each a bit long for matching up, cut them down to lengths that total proper length and welded those puppies together. Some worked fine for years but a distressing number di not work worth a hoot.
Back then buying all the other Garand parts was easy peasy. A surplus shop near where I grew up sold in the paper M1 barrels from a bin marked "Crowbar/levers" No, no really!
If only I had known....
-kBob
I suffered greatly from buying in the mid 1970s a reweld M1 and I understand these are still floating about. The government demilled rifles buy cutting the receiver in half and used no jig help make the cut so sometimes the recievers were cut at different places. folks wanting to build a garand would buy a batch of such scrap and find two pieces each a bit long for matching up, cut them down to lengths that total proper length and welded those puppies together. Some worked fine for years but a distressing number di not work worth a hoot.
Back then buying all the other Garand parts was easy peasy. A surplus shop near where I grew up sold in the paper M1 barrels from a bin marked "Crowbar/levers" No, no really!
If only I had known....
-kBob
CapnMac
Member
Hmm, maybe I as confusing the rim diameters for the 6.8s and the 6.5s.
But, yeah, 9# Garand stoked with 6.5x55 would be something to shoot.
The other "tease" is the .270, which should fit within the .308 mode.
Mind, that invites the idea of slimming the barrel contour down to the .276 profile, which means having an "un bent" Op Rod. Heady stuff.
Garandimal
member
Would need to open up the gas port a bit, but otherwise, seems like it would run like a 140 gr. sewing machine.
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