Most Consistent Primers

qciceman said:

What primers have you all found to be most consistent, specifically large rifle size? Related, does changing the primer change the point of impact? I reload for 30-06, mainly for hunting purposes. Is it worth trying different primers to try to tighten my groups little? Generally, I've been shooting around 1.5 MOA with the rounds I have loded.

I have been using WLR since I started reloading a few years go, but am interested in hearing your opinions.

Thanks in advance!

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for hunting it's not worth the time, if you change the primer you have to rework up the load. i like cci bset but wlr work fine.

For a hunting rifle messing with different primers is a waste of time.
I started reloading using Fed #210 primers because the local Gibson store carried them.
I still use them 50 some years later. Along the way I have also used Remington and Winchester large rifle primers to my complete satisfaction. I have probably loaded for about 50 different rifles. Every primer brand I have used was excellent.

A number of things should be able to help shrink a 1.5moa bolt action rifle to 1moa, but primers aren’t a “big knob” in that activity. Changing bullet, bedding the action, free floating the barrel (and maybe free floating mag boxes, in some actions), reducing trigger weight, improving your support, changing your brass, changing your sizing & expanding method, changing powder or charge weight, in some cases changing your jump, etc... lots of “big knobs” in this game, primers are a little knob.

I’ve loaded to single digit SD’s many times with WLR’s, but find it easier to do so with BR-2’s. I also find it considerably more expensive.

If 1.5moa meets your needs, and keeps your mind content, then you’re there. If you want better precision in your hunting rifles, then that’s fine too. It might end up as much ado about nothing, but such will most of our life. Do what makes you happy.

Great read on some in depth testing by a bench rest shooter.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471

Spoiler Alert, Sellier & Bellot LR yielded the lowest ES & SD, and not by just a little bit.

FWIW; I'm amazed at how few really "bad" primers I've had over the 35+ years I've reloaded. Of the bizillions of primers made, a very, very small number are "bad".

I have been using CCI since 1970 and various others since about '95. My reloading is not for bench rest, long range accuracy, but the average shooter's accuracy needs (I have a 308 that gives me consistent 7/8" groups when I do my part). I have worked up loads using one primer, tried another primer and worked up the load, but found no appreciable accuracy change. I mostly use CCI but have a stash including Winchester, Remington and Wolf. All work quite well...

I had some HXP 30-06 ammo that I pulled the bullet and powder and reloaded the primed brass. Worked OK with the OEM primers, as far as I could tell.

While CCI are my general go to primers I have pretty much used the all over the years. A few years back I did run a simple test using CCI primers.



What I did find in my 10 shot groups is the primers with smallest extreme spread and standard deviation did not always yield the best groups with all else being equal. All small rifle in a 223 Remington bolt gun loaded with 26.1 grains of H335 under a Sierra 53 grain HP bullet. Something I found interesting with primers is these primer flash test photos.

Overall I suggest you find a load you like and then as an after thought try a few different primers. See what happens with your conditions.

Ron

For big game hunting, it's definitely not worth it. What game would you be able to take with a 1moa load that you wouldn't with a 1.5moa load? The distance would have to be rather far. I'd consider CCI 200 average to better than average, depending on load. I've never had to use CCI 250 in a non-magnum cartridge, so I'm no help there. Wolf LR or LRM (if you can even find those anymore) are good in a 30-06, as long as you're not attempting to make your 30-06 into a 300WM. I found Wolf a little "cooler" than average - perfect for 308 and similar case capacities. I have tried Wolf LRM in 300WM, with not so good results. It exposes how cool they are. I have tried S&B LR, but haven't tested enough to have an informed opinion.
All that said, if you don't have any trouble with WLR's, there isn't a reason to change. Like others have said, there are bigger fish to fry if you're trying to get smaller groups.

The biggest limitation for precision load development in a hunting rifle is having to confine your rounds to magazine length followed closely by trigger pull weight and general ergonomics of the platform

They can all be overcome to some degree but expectations have to be managed. I have to remind myself of this every time I sit down to work up a load for one of my hunting rifles.

Primers do make a difference but the affect they have on accuracy would likely be lost in the signal noise of the other variables noted above.

Now, target rifles, you bet it makes a difference. It’s the last step in tuning a load after determining powder load and seating depth

What primers have you all found to be most consistent, specifically large rifle size? Related, does changing the primer change the point of impact? Is it worth trying different primers to try to tighten my groups little? Generally, I've been shooting around 1.5 MOA with the rounds I have loded.

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I have loads that have been worked up for various rifles that use specific primers and what works best for one may be different than others.

Sometimes I can see a difference and sometimes there isn’t any measurable change.

If you are happy with how your rifle shoots, it’s a waste of time to try and tighten them a little; however, there are some folks that enjoy endlessly chasing a good group.

Generally your not going to take a 1.5 MOA rifle and shoot tiny dots with it but you can try a couple different brands of premium factory ammunition, give yourself a baseline to work from. If you have already done that and your reloads are already better, I’d say the works been done.

I don't buy Win. primers anymore. I seat with a hand primer tool and Win. primers are always tight going into the pockets, even in Win. brass. That was only for some 45 ACP I was loading, don't know about their rifle primers.

A chart I've seen indicates they aren't any larger than most other primers but that isn't my experience.

CoalTrain49 said:

I don't buy Win. primers anymore. I seat with a hand primer tool and Win. primers are always tight going into the pockets, even in Win. brass. That was only for some 45 ACP I was loading, don't know about their rifle primers.

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I don’t use WLR primers anymore either, but for the opposite reason. They are loose in rifle cartridges. When measuring them they are below SAAMI diameter specs by .001-.002. Mate them with a primer pocket on the large side (like Win brass, go figure) and you run the risk of gas jetting past the primer and ruining your bolt.

I'm a fan of CCI rifle primers although Win primers aren't bad. I just prefer CCI because they seem to produce more accurate ammo but I never did test them side by side.

Years ago I switched to CCI BR (bench rest) primers because I figured they had to be more accurate ... Right?
I soon found that I couldn't tell the difference between them, CCI LR, or Remington 9 1/2. Now I just use whatever I have on hand. I do use Rem. 7 1/2 SR primers in all the rifle cases that they fit because I did find a difference between those and all the rest. I even use them in my Doak's nipple replacement capsules for my Ruger Old Army.

Nature Boy's data contradicts what I found years ago but I read a comparison of how hot small rifle primers were and 7 1/2s came out on top as far as energy was concerned.
Since Remington has gone down the tubes lately on quality, that may apply to their primers as well.

Howland said:

Great read on some in depth testing by a bench rest shooter.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471

Spoiler Alert, Sellier & Bellot LR yielded the lowest ES & SD, and not by just a little bit.

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They are great for accuracy. But they show pressure signs very quickly...

Nature Boy said:

I don’t use WLR primers anymore either, but for the opposite reason. They are loose in rifle cartridges. When measuring them they are below SAAMI diameter specs by .001-.002. Mate them with a primer pocket on the large side (like Win brass, go figure) and you run the risk of gas jetting past the primer and ruining your bolt.

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WLR primers sure cut my M700 bolt face.

For rifles, CCI and sometimes thier Benchrest line. Handguns, whatever's cheapest.

I've always had good results with CCI primers. I have also shot a lot of Federal 210M match primers when I was competing.

I prefer CCI for rifle and pistol, and Winchester for shotgun.

I buy whatever is cheapest when I go to the store.
Lately that's been CCI.
I can't tell a dime's worth of difference. However, I'm not a bench rest shooter either. My stuff is for plinking, range fun, and hunting.

CCI is my primary, liked S&B, but cant get em anymore. Win's I have always had a problem seating em for some odd reason, seemed rougher.

Mn Fats said:

WLR primers sure cut my M700 bolt face.

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Whenever you hear of it happening, it’s almost always a WLR primer

Nature Boy said:

Whenever you hear of it happening, it’s almost always a WLR primer

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Winchester was pretty great to deal with. I understand it's mostly cosmetic, but they refunded me my money on a case of 5000 I believe. And they offered to repair my rifle at the gunsmith of my choosing (never did that). I still got a pile of thier pistol primers, which I use no problem. But no more WLR's for me.

I've gone with Winchester primers for everything, I like their only one primer for both standard and magnum pistol loads.I have used CCI and some Remington with good success. The Federal primers I try ed in most of my brass seemed to flatten out while seating, and cratered more than the others with magnum loads. hdbiker