DRT: The Rounds that Do It

I've shot deer with 22lr, 243, 260, 6.5X55, 6.5 Creedmoor, 270, 300 Savage, 30-06, 300 WSM. 357 Mag, 7mm TCU. 44 Mag, 45 LC and Buckshot. This around 200 deer and I have yet to find a round the will consistently drop them on the spot.

The only truly DRT shot for me was last fall with a 12ga sabot. Absolutely straight down in his tracks.....but it was a CNS (spine) that exited through the heart. In a few steps,
the buck would have gone under my stand.

I will only add that each and every animal is a law unto itself.

Shot placement is the primary consideration. A .223 55 grain soft point bullet in the heart/lung area of a deer trumps a 180 grain bullet in the guts from a .300 Win Mag.

Since 2000 the vast majority of my deer (and wild hogs) were taken with muzzleloaders. About 40 percent of those deer bang flopped. A couple bang flops were shots in the heart/lung area. Heart/lung shots usually result in deer running up to 200 yards.

In about 2012 Fort Sill changed the first week of their muzzleloader season to conventional iron sighted muzzleloaders only firing conical bullets or patched round balls. Since then i've taken 12-15 deer on and off Fort Sill using .50 and .54 caliber muzzleloaders firing patched round balls. Those balls are as effective as 150-180 grain bullets fired from a .30-06 rifle

Last fall i killed eight deer; one with a .308 Winchester: The remainder with muzzleloaders, including three using patched round balls. The deer shot with the .308 bang flopped. One deer shot with an inline .50 caliber muzzleloader using the 250 grain SST bullet bang flopped: High just behind the shoulder shot. Two deer shot high in the shoulder with patched round balls also bang flopped.

Unlike high velocity bullets, round balls don't spoil meat on high shoulder shots.

This buck never kicked:

I had a 6 point pose for me at about 30 yards and I punched him behind the shoulder with a 165gr Accubond out of my 300WSM. He bucked and ran 50 yards out of sight. Then I heard him crash. When I opened him up the bottom half of his heart was rolling around in his chest. It amazes me to no end that these animals are so tenacious.

While the majority of my Bambi kills have been neck shots, I've been lucky that the few chest shots have been bang-flops. Of those, pretty much '06 with 150-grain bullets.

I like to break a shoulder. They don't go far with a broken landing gear and shoulder meat is just grinding meat. Rather lose a little grinding meat than the whole deer.

I have shot many deer with a variety of calibers. My go to for the last 25 years has been a .308 with a 150 Nosler BT...a similar load to Art's .06. Hard to beat the .30 caliber.

30-06 does it for me with a couple of exceptions over about 70 deer taken with that caliber. Nothing is fool proof.

I've had two deer that were DRT with a double lung shot. The first was a 360 yard shot with a 22-250 loaded with Speer 70 grain Semi Spitzers. The second was last summer from about 80 yards with a 308 Winchester shooting 168 gr. Berger VLDs.

I have never had a deer DRT with a true heart lung shot (12 ga Foster slugs, 44 mag, 50 cal muzzle loader, 303 Brit.) The shortest run was 10 yards farthest was a out 50 yards. Was never a big deal on the public and private land I've hunted over the last 45 years or so. My wife and I purchased some property in Northeast WI about 6 years ago. Our property is small, 14 acres of cedar wet lands and dense hardwood forest. While surrounding land is uninhabited, I don't want to track deer off my own property. As such I now only take spine/high shoulder shots to ensure DRT kills. It sometimes damages a bit of meat depending on the angle of the shot. But the peace of mind in knowing the deer stay put is worth it for me.

Deer aren't hard to kill, but as the other members note, the can and do often run a pretty fair distance after solid kill shots. It still amazes me how far they can go after losing both lungs and heart.

Be well

I’ve never had any consistency with bang flops. For instance, I’ve shot a large bodied buck with a 310g hard cast 44 mag out of a handgun and had it drop in its tracks with nothing but lungs hit, while at the same time, I’ve hammered the lungs and heart with a 30-06 150g at 40 yards and tracked it 100 yards.

I really don’t think there is one variable that can be controlled to get consistent results for a bang flop other than a CNS hit. Adrenaline plays a large factor as well. For example, I had a large doe with a fawn, (not milk around the mouth age, but old enough to survive on its own) walk out. I shot the large doe with a 140g 7mm rem mag, the doe dropped right there with no exit wound, the fawn bounced around a little then I placed a round in virtually the same location as the doe, this time getting a huge exit wound, but the fawn dashed 60 yards before going down.

In my experience, reliably producing an exit wound for more blood, easier tracking, is entirely more important than trying to produce that desired drop shot.

Out of the all the deer I've shot I only had one DRT. It was my first and biggest buck back in 2011. Dressed out over 200lbs, guessing 230-250 live weight. I shot him with a 30-06 at about 30 yards. Don't remember the bullet it,it may have been a federal fusion. Anyways I shot it high double lung right about where the X is in the pic. It didn't hit the spine or backstraps, but I think it was close enough that the hydrostatic shock shut down his central nervous system resulting in the bang flop.

30 min into the second day of the season, bang flop and 100 yards from the logging road so it was a short drag. Couldn't ask for an easier hunt LOL.

earlthegoat2 said:

This is a largely academic query and HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE I know.

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Then you know that is an oxymoron. That said, I have had one deer fall right over when I took the top of it's aorta off, (which is always my target on a deer) 165 Partition, .30-06, @65 yards. The reason I believe he dropped (more like flopped) over is he never knew I was there. He was sniffing up a doe's trail, I had let her go because I heard him coming behind her, so intent was he. Compare to my next one; @75 yards, same bullet & round, same POI, but this one had just been chased through a swamp by another hunter, came out onto the logging trail I was on, and I fired. He went 75 yards and ditched under a log. this was at dusk, we found him the next morning. The only other bang/flop I had, the 6 pt. actually took two steps after I put a Hornady SST slug through the top of his aorta at 35 yards. This one was making a beeline for my Dad, who was rattling up a storm. There as so many variables involved with terminal ballistics and animals, who haven't been told by Hollywood that they must die after one shot, that each instance is different.

As many have said in this thread, the activity state of the deer has a lot to do with how they react to a fatal shot. Adrenalin has a tremendous effect and can cause a deer to go several hundred yards with collasped lungs or a blown apart heart. CNS shots most always put them down right away.

MaxP said:

I will only add that each and every animal is a law unto itself.

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As is every shot I've ever made on game animals. While I generally aim for the same spot on deer every time I pull the trigger, angle, movement or distance generally makes that shot impact differently that anything previously. My aiming spot on deer is different not only from which angle is is taken, but what weapon I'm using. Because of the platforms I sometimes use, and regardless of what platform I use, I never expect a DRT. While they are a pleasant surprise, they do not always mean a perfect shot or exceptionally effective projectile. Hunting with recurve bows for many years, unless I hit the spine unintentionally, I expected to have to bloodtrail the animal. It was a given. DRTs were not the norm then than so many expect nowadays. I doubt very much if DRTs are the norm now, even with new equipment, new calibers and newer and more effective projectiles. What has become the norm tho, is the inability for many folks to recover an animal that does not drop within their line of sight(not just DRTs). This is where I think folks need to put more attention, planning and concern, is in the retrieval of shot animals. Over the years I cannot count on fingers and toes the amount of deer I have helped retrieve that the shooter perceived at either unfindable or that they had missed completely. I have personally watched folks shoot deer at 150 yards only to walk 100 yards in the direction they shot and then walk back to their stand thinking they had missed. Helping them find the blood at the spot they hit the animal is always the same......."I thought it was much closer than that!". Many times, because the animal shows no reaction to the shot, they think they missed. I've shot deer with the bow while they were feeding that only flinched a bit, looked around and then went back to feeding, only to drop a few seconds later from a double lung/heart shot.

Hunting shows and ammo makers claims have indoctrinated hunters, especially new hunters to the idea that animals are dead on the spot. Many times they are dead on the spot, but don't know it. If shoulders are not broke or the CNS not affected. they are going to do what comes naturally.....run, as far as they can. Another thing I have lost count of, is the amount of times I've heard hunters claim that they "double lunged" a deer with either a gun or bow and then claim there was bullet/broadhead failure that contributed to the animal not being recovered. Always wondered how they knew they double-lunged and animal they never found. How they knew for sure the bullet either didn't expand or expanded too much, when they never field dressed or butchered the animal they claimed they put a killing shot on. The only failure I see in most of those cases in the failure to be able to put a projectile where it really needs to be, or to be able to trail/track an animal once direct line of sight is lost.

buck460XVR said:

As is every shot I've ever made on game animals. While I generally aim for the same spot on deer every time I pull the trigger, angle, movement or distance generally makes that shot impact differently that anything previously. My aiming spot on deer is different not only from which angle is is taken, but what weapon I'm using. Because of the platforms I sometimes use, and regardless of what platform I use, I never expect a DRT. While they are a pleasant surprise, they do not always mean a perfect shot or exceptionally effective projectile. Hunting with recurve bows for many years, unless I hit the spine unintentionally, I expected to have to bloodtrail the animal. It was a given. DRTs were not the norm then than so many expect nowadays. I doubt very much if DRTs are the norm now, even with new equipment, new calibers and newer and more effective projectiles. What has become the norm tho, is the inability for many folks to recover an animal that does not drop within their line of sight(not just DRTs). This is where I think folks need to put more attention, planning and concern, is in the retrieval of shot animals. Over the years I cannot count on fingers and toes the amount of deer I have helped retrieve that the shooter perceived at either unfindable or that they had missed completely. I have personally watched folks shoot deer at 150 yards only to walk 100 yards in the direction they shot and then walk back to their stand thinking they had missed. Helping them find the blood at the spot they hit the animal is always the same......."I thought it was much closer than that!". Many times, because the animal shows no reaction to the shot, they think they missed. I've shot deer with the bow while they were feeding that only flinched a bit, looked around and then went back to feeding, only to drop a few seconds later from a double lung/heart shot.

Hunting shows and ammo makers claims have indoctrinated hunters, especially new hunters to the idea that animals are dead on the spot. Many times they are dead on the spot, but don't know it. If shoulders are not broke or the CNS not affected. they are going to do what comes naturally.....run, as far as they can. Another thing I have lost count of, is the amount of times I've heard hunters claim that they "double lunged" a deer with either a gun or bow and then claim there was bullet/broadhead failure that contributed to the animal not being recovered. Always wondered how they knew they double-lunged and animal they never found. How they knew for sure the bullet either didn't expand or expanded too much, when they never field dressed or butchered the animal they claimed they put a killing shot on. The only failure I see in most of those cases in the failure to be able to put a projectile where it really needs to be, or to be able to trail/track an animal once direct line of sight is lost.

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And this is one of the reasons I emphasize follow up shots when available. I have been criticized in the past for putting five shots into big animals implying my first shot wasn’t true. I don’t necessarily take multiple shots because they are “necessary,” I take them because I can. I will never forget my guide in Maine years ago imploring me to put the moose down quickly so it doesn’t make it to water, making recovery much more difficult. I always take multiple shots when I can, and never count on a DRT. JMHO.

I'm not that excited about dropping a deer on the spot. When it happens, it's usually the result of a spine hit, which is an ugly way to die, and often requires a follow up shot. Important as well, I intend to eat the animal, and a spine hit almost always means loss of tenderloin. Unless I'm very close and that's all I have, I'm going to avoid a neck shot. Unless you hit artery or spine, you won't recover the animal.

A good clean lung hit is what I generally prefer. The animal is going to run some ways, but if you have a bit of time you'll find him. You may or may not get much of a blood trail. If you do, it may not begin immediately. Sometimes when a animal hooks back in heavy brush or takes a turn that doesn't seem logical, it will take a little time to find him. A wounded animal is in shock and your logic in figuring out where he's going may cost you more time than it saves you.

Maybe I'm not much of a hunter anymore, but I've quit hunting in dying light--I'd do it if I were starving I suppose--but not normally. Too many of the animals I've recovered when I've had all day to find them would have been lost, if the same thing had happened right before dark.

To recover antlers the next morning means nothing, less than nothing, actually. It's a thing to be ashamed of rather than commemorate.

If you have to drop a deer instantly the three factors that will help you most are large bullet diameter, extensive expansion, and penetration: the same factors that will contribute to the largest amount of blackened meat.

Laws on recovering animals from property you don't own have tightened in my state. Used to be if you left your firearm behind you could cross onto property you didn't have permission to hunt to track a deer. That's changed to a situation that strictly requires landowner permission. The hunters did this to themselves. I'd find a poacher who'd obviously been sitting under a tree for hours, and his response was always "tracking a wounded deer." Even with the new law, if someone were legitimately tracking a deer they'd wounded through my property I'd help them. Once I did that by finishing their deer off in front of their eyes.

These two old boys were running across the ridge after a shot up doe. As they ran full tilt, they shot their surplus Mausers as fast as they could work the bolt from the hip. I could see the line of bullets kick up sometimes a hundred feet from the deer and headed straight for the old Jeep I had parked there. I knew if I didn't stop the deer on the spot, I'd have a shot Jeep. One of the rare instances where I intentionally used a neck shot on a fast moving animal.

When they came over to me, they were afraid I was going to confiscate their deer, which I had no intention of doing. As they were leaving, dragging their deer off, one of them turned, "How did you learn to shoot like that?"

I told them, "Butt to the shoulder is a good place to start."

I've got DRT shots on deer broadside several times with 243, using 100 grain Winchester power points. Also have done the same with both deer and hogs using 223 cal. 75 grain Hornady BTHP match. In fact, I have had DRT with this 223 round more often than I have had them run on me, which is strange, since so many experts claim that 223 isn't even sufficient for anything bigger than a coyote.

FL-NC said:

I've got DRT shots on deer broadside several times with 243, using 100 grain Winchester power points. Also have done the same with both deer and hogs using 223 cal. 75 grain Hornady BTHP match. In fact, I have had DRT with this 223 round more often than I have had them run on me, which is strange, since so many experts claim that 223 isn't even sufficient for anything bigger than a coyote.

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Sounds like you've found an ideal round for the critters you're hunting. Just big enough to allow adequate Penetration and maximum transfer of energy ,tissue destruction and hydrostatic shock without having too much momentum like bigger calibers do, just letting them sail right through and not delivering everything they got. Seems like real world results Trump the interwebs opinion once again.

Only sure Drop in tracks shot I know of is a Neck shot, Works on all the small bucks down hear ; )
Y/D

When I shoot a big buck I expect it to fall where it stands and that requires two things. First is shot placement. I shoot all of my animals with a high shoulder shot which goes through the deer front shoulder at the shoulder joint and completely takes out the running gear. The second thing is that the caliber needs to be large enough and the bullet needs to be heavy enough and fast enough to do the job. This creates extensive blood shock and internal blood loss. The best answer for me has been a 30-06 with a 165 grain bullet traveling close to 2900 fps. Also, the bullet should expend all of it's energy inside the animal and not make an exit hole. The perfect situation is for the bullet to end up under the skin on the far side of the animal. If you want a DRT situation bullets smaller than 30 caliber may not be the answer. I can say this because I have used 25 and 27 caliber bullets at over 2900 fps with lesser success. Lung shots and heart shots don't get the DRT result. Many meat hunters don't like DRT shooting because the blood shock ruins the looks of most of the shoulder meat.

For many years i tracked and located wounded elk and deer for other hunters. Most were gut shot. Many hunters could not pinpoint the location of the animal when shot. Some did not know the which direction the animal went after being shot.

Over 90 percent of my hunting is with .50 or .54 caliber muzzleloader. My shots are picked very carefully. At one property there's a stand overlooking a game trail. That stand is about 60 yards from the property boundary. Can't enter the adjacent property-period. i've killed 12-15 deer there using muzzleloaders. Shots are short, usually <75 yards. No wounded deer or hog ever crossed the properly line.

DRT shots for me have been very limited and I attribute them to blunt force trauma through an impressive shockwave.

44mag 16” contender pistol at 30 yards broadside on the point of the shoulder. Bone shards from leg and ribs went all through the front end of the critter. That was a medium sized buck, roughly 200 pounds.

357 mag loaded HOT at 7 yards. Doe, feeding. Broadside, just behind point of shoulder, hit ribs and splintered the bone.

Both shots were complete passthroughs and both of them left massive wound channels of totally destroyed flesh. The buck literally just fell like a puppet with a broken string. The doe took a step and landed on her face in a pile. Most of my kills have been shots to the same spot, and of the many that there have been, these were the only two DRT. Big bullets at moderate speeds making big wound channels. I dont understand why rifle bullets don’t do similar but they don’t, likely because they are so fast that they simply come apart. I have not hunted much with a shotgun to know what a slug will do. I hope to find out.

Edit to add...
I had one more DRT that another poster reminded me of. Muzzleloader, 25 yards, in the chest coming straight at me. The 50cal buffalo bullet over 80gr of pyrodex hit him hard and the angle of the shot helped to actually shove him backwards and into a tree. Again, big bullet, moderate velocity, bone hit.

I think I posted the story here before. About five years ago I shot two does with one shot from my 44 Magnum super Redhawk. The doe that was my intended target was ranged at 145 yards and standing broadside. The 240 grain bullet went through both lungs exited and struck another doe in the head killing it where it stood. The deer that was hit broadside traveled the farthest of any double lung shot deer I’ve ever taken. It took a circular route of at least 400 yards apparently one or both lungs not fully collapsing from the shot.
I guess the moral of the story is sometimes they travel a long way sometimes they drop in their tracks and sometimes both can happen at the same time.