It still is, they just haven't gotten it yet, they still want it, and confiscation of course, and are continually working towards that end.
Unintended Consequences
- Thread starter SharpDog
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buck460XVR
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Again, Walmart's choice has nuttin' to do with anti-gun sentiment, but all about profit, liability and their way of doing business. It's called commercialism, in the spirit of free enterprise geared toward generating profit.
It's also about the freedom of Wal-Mart to make a free choice of how they want to run their business. Funny, so many here get their panties in a wad when they think someone else is trying to take away a choice, right or freedom of theirs, but don't respect the rights, freedoms or choices of others. In our system of government and society , it generally goes both ways....it has to. It's also funny how folks want to transfer the blame to Wal-Mart, when it is the state of New Mexico that made the new law. While Wal-Mart may think this is a no-win situation, maybe local kitchen table FFLs and dedicated gun shops will see it as a boon, as transfers generally figure more into their profit than the local Wal-mart. They also have the time and expertise to determine if a used gun functions properly. It will surely be a hassle to folks wanting to save a bit of monies by doing a private FTF sale, and again, will do nuttin' to keep those prohibited from owning firearms from getting them illegally. Sale of a gun from one crook to another will go on as usual. In the long run, it will probably just make crooks outta normal law abiding, responsible gun owners, as friends and family decide that the cost and hassle, is not worth the little bit of risk of ever getting caught. Like Wal-Mart, they will take the easy way out. Human nature.
Elkins45
Member
I think Walmart deserves a pass on this one. They make their money selling stuff, not doing NICS checks. If guns are your business then mandatory private transfers are just a part of doing business. If guns are a sideline then it’s not worth the trouble and aggravation of having Joe Sixpack wander in with his shotgun to sell to Cousin Jimbob. Better to take the space where the guns were and add live bait or more ammo.
IMO it’s not a matter of principle, it’s a matter of $$$
IMO it’s not a matter of principle, it’s a matter of $$$
I didn't mean this as a knock on Walmart. Of course, they will do what's in their best interest.
What the thread is meant to imply is that every new law can have unintended consequences, no matter what the intent.
IMHO this law is misguided and unnecessary, mainly because it only applies to law-abiding citizens and addresses no real problem. Criminals don't get background checks. This is true with all of the new laws meant to address the unfortunate killing of people during crimes with guns.
Just enforce the existing law. There is no need for more.
What the thread is meant to imply is that every new law can have unintended consequences, no matter what the intent.
IMHO this law is misguided and unnecessary, mainly because it only applies to law-abiding citizens and addresses no real problem. Criminals don't get background checks. This is true with all of the new laws meant to address the unfortunate killing of people during crimes with guns.
Just enforce the existing law. There is no need for more.
Hypnogator
Member
I don't like it, but I can see their point. (1) Sellers bringing guns into the store, hopefully unloaded, but ya never can tell.. (2) Potential liability if the transferred gun is defective ("expert" behind counter should have known...).
FlSwampRat
Member
Thing is, we're talking here about the stores forced to do face to face transfers because of universal b/r checks. I don't think a state with open carry would have universal b/r checks as well, they seem mutually exclusive. As you say "as state law permits". In states with open carry it wouldn't be that odd to see someone bring in a holstered handgun, but at the same time, unless it was cased, I think a naked long gun in someone's hands might give some people pause.
Offhand McFlan
Member
I bought a 12ga at a NY Walmart back in '01 or so. I moved to P.A. about 12 years ago I don't recall gun sold in any Pennsylvania Walmart so far! Ammo is still plentiful however. Recently I went on vacation to Michigan, which I believe has stricter gun laws than Pennsylvania...but there I saw long guns being sold at Walmart for the first time since I had lived in New York. Definitely seems like an odd mixture of politics, laws and corporate policy.
FlSwampRat
Member
In retail every square foot of showroom must produce a certain profit level or that square footage needs to be rethought. No store is there to just be handy for people, it's there to make a profit. It's rather like why you can't walk into a store and buy pre-recorded VHS, 8-track or cassette tapes anymore. No sales. If an area of a store starts costing more to fill the square footage, and I'm not talking simply cost of the item, than it's producing in revenue it will likely shrink in size or be removed in favor of more profitable things. The steps added to sell things reduces the gross profit by upping employee handling costs.
Some people come into sporting goods and gun selling pawn shops, for example, because there are guns for sale. While there they might buy things other related or unrelated to the guns being for sale. But, having the guns has costs above and beyond buying the item to have it in inventory and all the ancillary paperwork involved. People are surprised to find out that the guns are put away in a vault every night. Half an hour every night and again every morning are spent pulling and then putting them out for sale again. That's one hour a day of an employee's time every day just in order to have the guns out for sale. If the costs of being a gun dealer exceeds the profit from selling guns, hey! look at our new stock of grape jelly!
FlSwampRat
Member
Probably because only a few employees are trained to sell firearms. In our company not everyone is qualified to sell them so only certain ones do sell firearms and ammunition.
FlSwampRat
Member
The Walton family doesn't own WalMart as they once did. It's a publicly traded company. Buy stock in it and you're a part owner. They are the biggest shareholders, but there are a lot of others as well and you have to see to the bottom line as your #1 priority to keep those investors happy. Doesn't matter what the Walton family feels about 2A. As I said in another post, it comes down to a certain class of merchandise being profitable and profitable enough to warrant that company dealing in it.
FlSwampRat
Member
And the potential for AD as some traders may not be as well trained as concealed or open carriers (hopefully) are.
"Experts" cost more money in wages than folks merely trained to properly conduct a firearms sale. And, I have to admit, without firing a gun it can be pretty hard to completely test it. That's why most manufacturers actually fire each gun before it leaves the factory.
While the local WalMarts carry long arms around here, it's rare to see the counter with someone behind it. I can see why adding this would be a hassle for them from a business point of view. We have plenty of LGS in town, that could do the chore if it came to that here. Probably not for awhile in TX, though.
Sistema1927
Member
There is another factor at work here as well. Most Walmarts also sell alcohol, and while CCW holders can carry there, open carry, with or without a CCW, is a felony.
Our legislature and governor really gave us the shaft with this one.
Our legislature and governor really gave us the shaft with this one.
entropy
Member
Only certain Associates can sell firearms, correct. I can't, even though I have more experience at it than the rest of the store combined (minus the Sporting Goods Dept. Mgr., who is my best friend) because I haven't been through Walmart's Firearms Sales training course. Only Associates who's job codes are Sporting Goods, and every salaried manager, can sell firearms. Whoever has custody of the Sporting Goods keys at any moment can sell ammo, which is why you have know what you want specifically, and be prepared to point it out. You might have the Electronics manager, or an Automotive associate, and they may not know anything about ammo. If you happen to want to buy a gun when no Sporting Goods people are there, you will get an Assistant or Store Manager. They don't do it as often and might be slower at it, but the small upside to this is they don't have to call a Mgr. to walk you to the door.
I am thankful the City Council turned our application down. It was bad enough when I worked overnights with the clowns coming in and asking where it was, as if we'd sell at 3 AM anyway.
Business is cold and as guns become a litigious item with extreme complexity that requires someone either make it a past time or hire a lawyer to know what to do, while businesses and storefronts depend on employees they pay as little as possible to maximize profit, they do not get good talent capable of running gun counters and face huge liabilities for mistakes made. The level of talent required and the liability presented makes carrying firearms harder.
Walmart stopped selling firearms in California after a lawsuit from errors made in the background checks early on when NICS and the brady bill first passed. Places now making ammunition harder to sell may see a cease in ammunition sales too.
That is why you don't let business set the tone and values of your society.
Businesses are becoming more globalized and they cater to many markets and you are but one of them. They only adjust for you so much, and it will continue to be reduced in its importance as the rest of the world modernizes.
They will care as much about your values as they do the Chinese's values for example, and less so when they are a bigger market with more money. The big companies already try and advise the government not to hold other nations accountable for hacking, espionage, and all sorts of things so they don't disrupt their precious market. Google for example has been hacked and known who it was, and they spy on most of the population and the phone operating system they own through android is the most popular and widely used in the nation, while they track everyone's habits online and on their phone. Yet they say shh don't make a big deal it's just Americans' privacy, don't interfere with the money.
Many other companies do the same thing all the time, and downplay serious security breaches on a regular basis, while selling or giving away all the technology created in our society over decades of having so many innovations that put us ahead.
They don't care about you and protecting you or making your life better or upholding any values, and if they do the federal government smacks them down because it upsets someone anyways.
As other markets grow and companies are catering to many nations it becomes a challenge to keep up with the complexities at the lowest price point around the world, and guns and ammunition laws are increasingly more complex. While attorneys advise anyone to reduce anything seen as a liability and will go as far as the law or the constitutional interpretations allow towards that end. While the individual markets become a smaller and smaller percent of their total customers. Americans have become used to being the prime market and businessed catering to American values and laws.
New Mexico is one state, with one of the lower populations. A small market in a small state in just one nation they operate in, and so if New Mexico makes anything too complicated Walmart will stop selling it there. California has twenty times the population, the largest population in the nation, and businesses have more motivation to cater to those dollars. Yet they still stopped doing things related to firearms and ammunition as California makes that market more challenging. Smaller states are going to recieve even less consideration if they make things challenging.
Walmart stopped selling firearms in California after a lawsuit from errors made in the background checks early on when NICS and the brady bill first passed. Places now making ammunition harder to sell may see a cease in ammunition sales too.
That is why you don't let business set the tone and values of your society.
Businesses are becoming more globalized and they cater to many markets and you are but one of them. They only adjust for you so much, and it will continue to be reduced in its importance as the rest of the world modernizes.
They will care as much about your values as they do the Chinese's values for example, and less so when they are a bigger market with more money. The big companies already try and advise the government not to hold other nations accountable for hacking, espionage, and all sorts of things so they don't disrupt their precious market. Google for example has been hacked and known who it was, and they spy on most of the population and the phone operating system they own through android is the most popular and widely used in the nation, while they track everyone's habits online and on their phone. Yet they say shh don't make a big deal it's just Americans' privacy, don't interfere with the money.
Many other companies do the same thing all the time, and downplay serious security breaches on a regular basis, while selling or giving away all the technology created in our society over decades of having so many innovations that put us ahead.
They don't care about you and protecting you or making your life better or upholding any values, and if they do the federal government smacks them down because it upsets someone anyways.
As other markets grow and companies are catering to many nations it becomes a challenge to keep up with the complexities at the lowest price point around the world, and guns and ammunition laws are increasingly more complex. While attorneys advise anyone to reduce anything seen as a liability and will go as far as the law or the constitutional interpretations allow towards that end. While the individual markets become a smaller and smaller percent of their total customers. Americans have become used to being the prime market and businessed catering to American values and laws.
New Mexico is one state, with one of the lower populations. A small market in a small state in just one nation they operate in, and so if New Mexico makes anything too complicated Walmart will stop selling it there. California has twenty times the population, the largest population in the nation, and businesses have more motivation to cater to those dollars. Yet they still stopped doing things related to firearms and ammunition as California makes that market more challenging. Smaller states are going to recieve even less consideration if they make things challenging.
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Deanimator
Member
In NE Ohio, it is EXCEPTIONALLY hard to get service at a Walmart ammunition counter (most don't sell guns). It usually takes twenty minutes or more and multiple requests for assistance.
The only place I've seen that was worse was DICK'S. If you've ever wondered how the consumer was treated in the Soviet Union, try to just ASK about ammunition at DICK'S. I once spent something like two hours trying to get assistance at the ammunition counter. I literally left, went to Walmart, and came back before anyone would help me... after stopping three different employees and having someone at the fishing counter stare at me for twenty minutes.
herrwalther
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- May 1, 2013
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- 8,124
Uneducated public and politicians tout universal background checks at the state level without realizing they are "feel good" laws. They will do little to curb violence at any level.
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