Squibs, Yuck!

Well, let's see.....Anything that would induce static like low humidity or putting a powder measure in a towel for transport could have an effect.conversly real high humidity from say not putting the propellant away between uses could cause clumping as well. A used dryer sheet wiping the measure and fresh powder might solve this. Also take down those loaded rounds for safety and refill them with correct charge. I would work on my methods of verifying the charge in the future where I in your shoes.YMMV

what powder are you using , any chance of bridging ?
also with dillon if I remember right you have to be sure that you go completely down on the ram so the powder measure resets the safety arm ?
as for the lube what are you using and how are you applying it ?
I do not lube 9mm for resizing using carbide dies , are you wet tumbling with dish soap ?
can you walk us through your steps ?

Cleaning the measure and drop tube followed by running some powdered graphite through it probably would not hurt matters any either. I would take apart the suspect ammo and reload again just to be safe as well. An overcharge would really ruin your day.

Good thing you didn't fire another round with the squib in the barrel. Things go real bad, real fast when that happens.


I have read about this happening on progressive presses.
I'm sure some powders are more incline to lump or bridge up then others. Depending upon many factors.

CANNONMAN said:

but is there a case weight difference that can hide the 3.5 gr's load

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Your bullets could have that much variance

CANNONMAN said:

I 'm thinking of weighing them. I don't know but is there a case weight difference that can hide the 3.5 gr's load?

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Unless you sorted by headstamp and used a headstamp with tight weight tolerance and used a projectile with similarly tight weight tolerance, this won't work.

I check weigh all my finished rounds, but I do all the things above. If you haven't, then check-weighing won't tell you anything... the noise will swamp the signal.

You've got something going on. Bullseye isn't the most accurate metering powder out there but it shouldn't have ANY problems in a Dillon powder measure.

1. Is the Dillon new?
2. If it's new did you degrease the entire powder system. There's not much to do other than making sure the powder funnel is clean.
3. What lube are you using?

If the Dillon isn't new you still need to check the powder funnel. Also make sure there's nothing in the powder bar cavity.

I've loaded over 15K of 9mm so far this year on one of my Dillon 650 presses. Never a bobble with the powder measure.

This is one reason a progressive press doesn't fit my lifestyle. I started in '69 with a Lee Loader and started looking at every case I charged to make sure there is powder where it belongs, and looking in every case is a habit. I've read of "powder cops" and such but I'm not comfortable just assuming every round has a powder charge (and I agree that there are too many variations in component weight to verify whether or not powder is in the cartridge).

I can only address the "contamination" issue. Unless your handloads have a lot of excess lube, like dripping wet, that migrates into or is inadvertently put inside a case, or you are using cast bullets with a big glob of bullet lube on the base, contamination is a rare occurrence. Some softer cast bullet lubes can "migrate" into the powder under some conditions, like high ambient temperatures. But, 99% of a new reloader's squib problems is from poor powder charging, too little or no powder...

CANNONMAN said:

So I thought I was watching like a hawk and measured about every three.

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When I got into a progressive press, I found if I stopped the process at any time for a jam, or check powder charge weight., or something else, I would get a case or two with no powder. The reason, in restarting loading, I'd get cases around the powder measure positioned at different stages of the process and sometimes a case would miss getting charge.

My correction was to remove all the cases from the press through the powder measure.

I'm not sure how you are removing the cases to measure your powder charge but I'd look at what you are doing here.

FROGO207 said:

I would work on my methods of verifying the charge in the future where I in your shoes.

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This...

I verify the powder charge in every case either by visually looking or some powder check device.

Being a suspenders and belt kinda guy, I have a powder check die and an LED lighting system on my LnL progressive press. I look at every single case, except when I get distracted, that power check die has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. I really try hard to pay attention to each case to see if it has powder, but I'm human and therefore fallible. I try to overcome my fallibility by sticking to a procedure/process. Really happy I invested in the RCBS lock out die.

I wonder how many of us reloaders get squibs?
I'd bet most are due to human error.

I have yet to see a Dillon powder measure bridge a charge and I have a pile of them - it's either open or closed. I have however screwed up more than once, even at the press!

I learned a long time ago to look into every single (pistol) case. For rifles I watch the powder bar slide open and closed. By far the best thing I learned overall was not to stop once I get a rhythm going.

After my first squib, I bought a powder check die for my LnL AP. It stops the press if the charge is under or over. Haven't had a squib since.

If you half-stroke any auto-indexing press, it's quite possible to advance the shellplate without having performed the function of the corresponding die. The ratcheting mechanism occurs at various points on the rams travel for different presses, but half-strokes are to be avoided - and everything has to be carefully assessed if you throw one in.

Safe and efficient use of progressives is as much about having a consistent "muscle memory" on every stroke as anything else.

I have been loading on a 650 for 25 years and I have never loaded a squib... knock on wood. I do use the Dillon Powder check on my 9mm and 45 acp heads... mainly because loading them goes so fast.

Post a picture of your 650 setup. It sounds like something isn't setup right because multiple squibs is so rare with any of the 650 owners I have ever talked to. With a picture we might be able to help you diagnose the problem.

I learned that Unique is a poor powder to use in a progressive if you don't have a powder check die. This is a good time to give my talk to anyone owning a progressive. Get a powder check die, it's not about "IF" you get bad charge but "WHEN".

Unique is a powder that sometimes bridges. It kind of clumps in the measure at times preventing it from dropping. I replaced it with Universal and the problem went away.

Dillon makes a powder check die I believe.
I have an RCBS lockout die I use on my LNL Progressive, money well spent IMO.
Depending on the powder it will catch say a + or - .2-.3 gain, doubles and empties for sure.
If you have a free station I think they are nice to have. 99.9% of the time it does nothing, but when it does it pays for itself.

I first got a Powder cop but you have to watch it, the lockout die does not need to be watched, something is wrong the press won't go up.
(assuming you don't brute force it)

No point in trying to find cases with no powder in 9mm IMO unless you are using same headstamp and same lot brass even then it's a maybe.
Weigh some random 9mm empties and you will see why it won't work.

Highland Lofts said:

I wonder how many of us reloaders get squibs?
I'd bet most are due to human error.

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My one and only squib came right after I started wet tumbling my brass. Brass sat for 10 days after wash and I still got wet contamination. Now everything goes thru the toaster oven, not going to trust air drying. The rest of you can but I learned the hard way.

That's why I made my drying racks and blow the brass off with my air hose.


And I either give them plenty enough time to dry or they go in the oven set at 190° for fifteen minutes once the temp gets reached.

I also knock all of the primers out for air flow threw the cases.
You'd be surprised at how much the cases retain water in side the cases even after setting on my drying racks for 10 minutes or so. I let them drip -dry a little before hitting them with air to help get most of the water off the cases.

The Dillon 650 is rather unique in several ways. Some ideas which may help come to mind....

• Obviously (as has been said) some powders simply meter poorly. Move away from Unique, 700X and Blue Dot and toward BE-86 and Sport Pistol and your results will be much improved.

• Dillon measures seem to be helped by adding return tension to the Powder Bar. I use the spring off an older model Dillon powder measure, but you can get started (experiment) using rubber bands. It doesn't take a lot of additional tension, but the powder bar should return to the Home position with a snap! Notice the spring below isn't at full tension...


• The #3 and #4 positions are right in front of you. Always visually check the powder level before placing the bullet. Maybe you simply need more light? I can highly recommend the VERY bright UFO LED lighting kit from KMS Squared. Click Here.


• Yes, obsessive case-lubbing in the case interior can cause issues. 1. Before you spray your cases, simply knock them all onto their side. 2. Then, allow them several hours to dry, as per the instructions. That will end all those issues.

• All powders meter better in low humidity environments. If you're in your basement, then tap into existing AC ducting. If you're in an out building, then buy a small AC window unit.

Hope this helps.

ATLDave said:

If you half-stroke any auto-indexing press, it's quite possible to advance the shellplate without having performed the function of the corresponding die. The ratcheting mechanism occurs at various points on the rams travel for different presses, but half-strokes are to be avoided - and everything has to be carefully assessed if you throw one in.

Safe and efficient use of progressives is as much about having a consistent "muscle memory" on every stroke as anything else.

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I would guess this is your problem. Pay very close attention to each step next time you are reloading and note what causes any problems with the powder drop. There are numerous ways a powder drop can get missed. If paying attention to the machine and looking in each case before seating a bullet you should be able to figure it out.

Highland Lofts said:

I wonder how many of us reloaders get squibs?
I'd bet most are due to human error.

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Ive had just one in 50k+ rounds. That was enough for me to add additional lighting to my work area with bright LED light lights and my LNL AP with a KMS UFO light. I also check each drop with my Mark 1 eyeball as they come around. Since adding a bullet feeder, Ive become even more careful to check as you can make alot of bad ammo really fast with a case and bullet feeder.

Bullseye doesnt meter great being a largish flake powder, but it should run thru a Dillon drop with no more than +/- .1 or maybe .2 accuracy if the drop is clean and shiny, which isnt a huge deal in 9mm unless youre at the top of the load range. Its better than Unique though. You wont see spot on accuracy until you go to a straight ball powder. The Dillon drops are good enough generally, but they are not as accurate as a rotary drop and do have alot of moving parts which is why plenty of people have switched out their Dillon drops for something else like a Lee or even a Hornady. As an example, with my Hornady drop with a ball powder, Im seeing +/- .025 in variance when I throw 50 charges in a pan and weigh it.

If you are using a TiN or carbide sizing die you dont need case lube, but I still use a little spritz of OneShot as once dry it will not foul out powder like a lanolin based lube will. And it makes sizing 9mm and other straight wall pistol cases effortless which in turn makes the press run smoother.