185gr 9mm anyone?

So it's wall thickness? Hmm. I repeat if someone wants an expended case to check out say so, I have some left. If you are in Southern AZ and want to meet me in the CG area I can give you a few rounds to test.

Well there are two different things to look at here one is the NAS3 cases, the other the 185 gr. 9mm ammo.

Time will tell on the cases. Brass is a known quantity and it works. This could be something better. A strong appeal is being made to reloaders. There is also a focus on +P and +P+ pressure levels in the videos for the ammo. The two piece cases pose some challenges. Some of those issues can be overcome others we'll see about over time. Those look to be from the mating of two pieces in the construction of the cases, it's a press fit. Folks have noted in the videos and articles that they can stretch out on the OAL, with the gap between them opening up. This is not a norm with the cases but time will tell as more people get to reloading it and some are focused on +P+ "crazy pressure levels".

The heavyweight Seismic Quakemaker ammo bullets are the other topic. The 185 gr. "Heavy Weight +M" from Seismic Ammo is interesting. Seismic says that they use a slow burning powder (proprietary) which produces a slower recoil impulse more like a standard 115 gr. pill, to power the round. This is why they use the NAS3 case. There is not enough room in standard 9mm brass.

The videos below, which features Seismic spokespersons, maintains 950 fps with the 185 gr. 9mm bullet from a variety of pistols (he did not mention barrel length but likely in the 4-5" range). This is 40 S&W and 45 acp territory with the same weight bullets. They motivate the bullet by saying that the heavier bullet provides additional momentum, which is true. That's why they have the +M in their name.

They spent time developing the bullet with, they say, several different ammo manufacturers till they got what they wanted. They have a standard lead core bullet with a copper jacket, blackened with a lubricating coating. The ammo is made under contract for them it seems. Only the NAS3 cases will work with these longer bullets in the manner intended.

Keep an eye on this stuff and see where it goes.

Extraordinary claims require some time, testing and proof from a whole number of folks.

https://seismicammo.com/





It's worth noting that Seismic is a subsidiary of the Hailey Ordnance Co. out of Oklahoma.

tipoc said:

Seismic says that they use a slow burning powder (proprietary) which produces a slower recoil impulse more like a standard 115 gr. pill, to power the round.

Click to expand...

This claim/rationale does not fill me with confidence in their understanding of internal ballistics.

To be more accurate, they claim the "felt recoil" is more like a 115 gr. bullet because of the slower burning powder. I think Armoredman noted something about the felt recoil earlier in this thread.

That doesn't help.

Slower burning powders produce more recoil in pistols for the momentum generated.

They're either very confused or are offering some nonsense marketing explanation for needing a slow powder to avoid blowing up the gun with their huge bullet in a tiny case, and wanting to drive it fast enough to expand.

I haven't read all the comments yet. But I agree, velocity is important here, as well.

Pushing a 185 gr. 9mm at 1,200 fps (typical velocities for, say, 115 gr. ammunition) would be a whole new world of experience from a 9mm pistol.

Especially the smaller ones.

Will attest to the effectiveness of a ~ 180 gr HP at ~ 1000 fps.


...$18/50 box.






GR

Yeah, that's part of what makes me giggle about this. "Congratulations, you've invented the .40 S&W... except very expensive. Good job guys. Truly revolutionary."

RetiredUSNChief said:

I haven't read all the comments yet. But I agree, velocity is important here, as well.

Pushing a 185 gr. 9mm at 1,200 fps (typical velocities for, say, 115 gr. ammunition) would be a whole new world of experience from a 9mm pistol.

Especially the smaller ones.

Click to expand...

They're claiming 950 fps with the 185 gr. 9mm pill.

884 FPS in my pistol through a ProChrono on a 110 degree day. When I get my tripod fixed I'll show it again if need be.
ATLDave, the recoil wasn't heavier or lighter, but...odd...watch me and my co-host shooting and we both show that it just feels...off. Felt recoil is exactly that - subjectively felt, rather than measured.
Don't get me wrong, I was hoping to be on the ground floor of something really neat, but in my mind it isn't quite working out that way. If, say, the PACKAGE was marked "recommended for carbine/SMG use" that might have changed things up. I don't have a 9mm subgun/carbine anymore so I lack the ability to test it through such.

tipoc said:

They're claiming 950 fps with the 185 gr. 9mm pill.

Click to expand...

Hmmm...sounds like a respectable velocity, and quite managable to me.

Armoredman's videos are back in post # 16. They are useful to watch.

The rate of twist of the barrel could have an effect on the longer bullets flight. But neither the package or the website refer to that or mention it.

It's interesting to me how little information there is on Seimic Ammo's website.

I chrono'ed a few and had an average of 923 fps from a 5" Kart barrel.

ATLDave said:

Yeah, that's part of what makes me giggle about this. "Congratulations, you've invented the .40 S&W... except very expensive. Good job guys. Truly revolutionary."

Click to expand...

Yeah, but .40 is SO expensive compared to 9mm, like $2 more a box and it has SO much more recoil than 9mm, like about the same this 185 grain 9mm ammo has.

And .40 is dying and won't be around much longer, nor will the pistols be because .40 is SO high pressure it destroys the guns prematurely so even if ammo was available, the guns would be unsafe to shoot anyway.

Thus, the only options we'll have to shoot 180 grain ammo in conceal carry pistols that won't cost a fortune (cuz .45 isn't cheap either) to practice with will be 9mm.

TTv2 said:

Yeah, but .40 is SO expensive compared to 9mm, like $2 more a box and it has SO much more recoil than 9mm, like about the same this 185 grain 9mm ammo has.

And .40 is dying and won't be around much longer, nor will the pistols be because .40 is SO high pressure it destroys the guns prematurely so even if ammo was available, the guns would be unsafe to shoot anyway.

Thus, the only options we'll have to shoot 180 grain ammo in conceal carry pistols that won't cost a fortune (cuz .45 isn't cheap either) to practice with will be 9mm.

Click to expand...

GR

Garandimal said:

​

GR

Click to expand...

What does that mean?