I have no experience with AKs, so I don’t trust myself to convert one properly.
Which AK should I get as my first?
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I have no experience with AKs, so I don’t trust myself to convert one properly.
NIGHTLORD40K
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I certainly dont see new AKs getting any cheaper. If our relations with Russia get any worse, or if a Democrat wins in 2020 or beyond, expect prices to skyrocket, actually.
Right now is the time to buy all the "assault rifles" and as much ammo as you can.
Right now is the time to buy all the "assault rifles" and as much ammo as you can.
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<*(((><
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Personally, then for the price you want to pay, which seems like yesteryear prices; you are stuck with a WASR or PSA AK47. Not trying to be rude, just speaking real life.
I think PSA's offerings are a game changer for the AK world, you will get AK aficionados who will say they are junk because they aren't built with blood, sweat and tears from the motherland; but I think they are the best deal out there currently on what I've seen. But it will not have that old world flair if that is what one wants. But if PSA can get their AK's selling at a good clip it will drive prices down when people realize that the PSA AK's are shooting and just as reliable as combloc AK's (i'm not saying this is the case, I'm saying what could be).
Just whatever you do, for everything good and right in this world; please stay away from Century Arms (CAI) AK's.
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My only issue is I would prefer to buy an AK that was made in a former Soviet republic or satellite state. I want a gun that looks like it was hammered together in some run down Eastern European factory and could go through hell and back. From what I've seen, Zastavas, WASRS, and some Polish variants of the AK pull off that look well.
How's your experience with them been?
NIGHTLORD40K
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I had one. It was fine- decent accuracy, never had a jam. Needed money at the time, only reason I sold it.
I do prefer my current Norincos, though, better fit and finish. All were good though.
So the advice early in the thread was for a Saiga and conversion or an Arsenal. Obviously, the goal with a Saiga and conversion is to approach the kind of "Soviet" authenticity that's been mentioned in this thread while working around import regulations to ensure the result is in fact a US-made rifle. But what is the sensible approach with Arsenal? Are their forged and milled receivers the route that really achieves "the best AK" or can something be done with their stamped receivers that somehow blends "modern AK" with authentic? I'm not an AK-guy, but I've thought of Krebs and Rifle Dynamics as the high-end AK shops in the US market for at least the last few years and I think they sell stamped receivers unless they're just upgrading a customer gun.
The LGS is selling the Zastava ZPAP for $850. It is a beautiful gun and part of me is considering going out this weekend to buy one, but that is a lot of money
. The way I look at it, though, I'd be paying $1000 for an Arsenal and that is not including what I'd pay for the wooden furniture, shipping, etc.
wojownik
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"Looks" aren't everything (but they do count).
- Zastava NPAPs might have the "look," but they have little in common with their Zastava military brothers - not cosmetics, but factory QC on their “commercial" export line. OPAPs were better than NPAPs, in my opinion, partly because OPAPs were built on milsurp components. The ZPAPs at $850-$899 are way overpriced, IMHO. Anyway, same factory, different production line than the military versions.
- WBP (Poland) comes in a number of versions, including a very classic Polish look. WBP's QC is very good so far (IMHO) and they are very responsive. However, WBP is not Radom (Circle 11). But it appears to be a very solid rifle, so far, available in a very classic Polish AK look. Fit and finish (particularly the classic model through Atlantic Firearms) is very impressive. Different factory than the old military versions (although WBP is subcontracted to provide components to current for upgrades and maintenance of AKs still in the Polish arsenal. At $1000 ... ouch ... but the AK market is a bit insane these days.
- WASR (Romanian) arguably is the closest to their military brothers, coming for the most part of the same production line (or at least used to ... still do AFAIK). Cosmetics are not great, but that's just like their military brothers. WASRs can be prone to QC issues (the infamous canted sights being the most common). Same factory and generally the same production line as the military versions. At $595-$695, this is probably your best option.
I've a Romak since 1997 (older version of the WASR) and it has hummed along flawlessly for 22 years now ... not my most beautiful AK, but solid as a rock.
FWIW...
- Zastava NPAPs might have the "look," but they have little in common with their Zastava military brothers - not cosmetics, but factory QC on their “commercial" export line. OPAPs were better than NPAPs, in my opinion, partly because OPAPs were built on milsurp components. The ZPAPs at $850-$899 are way overpriced, IMHO. Anyway, same factory, different production line than the military versions.
- WBP (Poland) comes in a number of versions, including a very classic Polish look. WBP's QC is very good so far (IMHO) and they are very responsive. However, WBP is not Radom (Circle 11). But it appears to be a very solid rifle, so far, available in a very classic Polish AK look. Fit and finish (particularly the classic model through Atlantic Firearms) is very impressive. Different factory than the old military versions (although WBP is subcontracted to provide components to current for upgrades and maintenance of AKs still in the Polish arsenal. At $1000 ... ouch ... but the AK market is a bit insane these days.
- WASR (Romanian) arguably is the closest to their military brothers, coming for the most part of the same production line (or at least used to ... still do AFAIK). Cosmetics are not great, but that's just like their military brothers. WASRs can be prone to QC issues (the infamous canted sights being the most common). Same factory and generally the same production line as the military versions. At $595-$695, this is probably your best option.
I've a Romak since 1997 (older version of the WASR) and it has hummed along flawlessly for 22 years now ... not my most beautiful AK, but solid as a rock.
FWIW...
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Atlantic Firearms has a very nice looking WBP Fox right now, but it's priced over $1000. I think at that price level (over $1000), I'd be more tempted to buy an Arsenal. The WASRs I've seen at several stores around me are selling above $700, which hardly seems like a deal. Getting something that's close to the military production line would be a plus for me.
https://www.bnhunting.com/rifles/semi-automatic-rifles/cent-rh-10-romanian-762x39mm-chrome-lined-15
This is about as cheap as it gets these days for a Romanian rifle
I like the combo gas block/sight look! I have a Romak with a 14.5"bbl, and pinned brake.
This is about as cheap as it gets these days for a Romanian rifle
I like the combo gas block/sight look! I have a Romak with a 14.5"bbl, and pinned brake.
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Yeah, your customization options on AKs are pretty limited.
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Do you really think its as easy for the average consumer to customize an AK as it is for them to customize an AR? I realize that if you have a gunsmith and unlimited money for customization, an AK can be customized. Its absurd to think its as easy and cheap to customize an AK as an AR though.
Even for my first AK is it a good idea to go with a higher-end brand like Arsenal? When I bought my first AR, I bought a S&W M&P 15 Sport 2 because I didn’t want to go out and spend $1000+ on a platform I wasn’t overly familiar yet. Normally, I would go out and rent a gun to see if I like it, but my local range doesn’t have Arsenals to rent.
TheWarhammer
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Other than shortening the barrel, which cost me $90 of my "unlimited money", not one single modification on my rifle was done by a gunsmith. (BTW, what does a new barrel cost for an AR? $150 on the low end?) Everything else was off-the-shelf and bolt-on, just like customizing an AR. The parts themselves cost the same as a similar AR part: AK grip $ = AR grip $, AK hand guard $ = AR hand guard $, etc... So, yes, it's just as easy and cheap to customize an AK as an AR. It's laughably absurd to assert otherwise.
uzimon
Member
Picked up this milled Mak90 at a garage sale last month for $300. Sitting on it for now but tempted to sell it for at least double. I could get some Ironwood Designs stocks for it and turn it into a spiker AK but I too am focusing on AR15's currently.
I've always passed on Mak90's previously. Never cared for how neutered they were. At least with my Ban era Romanian SAR-1 I had a provision for a cleaning rod.
Back when Romania G Kits were cheap and came with original barrels, I built 4 of them. The 2 on the right and 2 on the left I built from kits in the basement of my townhouse. Used a hammer and punch to form the rivets. Middle AK is my 2001 Romanian Sar-1 with Russian Kobra Red Dot.
Few years ago, I snagged this Serbian Pap M92 AK. Dealer I bought it from installed the folding arm brace. It's a neat gun. I saw the full auto versions in the hands of security contractors in Iraq. Had to have a semi-auto version.
I had a milled Arsenal Bulgaria SLR95MB pass through my hands back in the early 00's. My stamped Romanian Sar-1 shot just as accurately as the milled Bulgarian.
I've always passed on Mak90's previously. Never cared for how neutered they were. At least with my Ban era Romanian SAR-1 I had a provision for a cleaning rod.
Back when Romania G Kits were cheap and came with original barrels, I built 4 of them. The 2 on the right and 2 on the left I built from kits in the basement of my townhouse. Used a hammer and punch to form the rivets. Middle AK is my 2001 Romanian Sar-1 with Russian Kobra Red Dot.
Few years ago, I snagged this Serbian Pap M92 AK. Dealer I bought it from installed the folding arm brace. It's a neat gun. I saw the full auto versions in the hands of security contractors in Iraq. Had to have a semi-auto version.
I had a milled Arsenal Bulgaria SLR95MB pass through my hands back in the early 00's. My stamped Romanian Sar-1 shot just as accurately as the milled Bulgarian.
I think so.
I mean there’s two schools of thought on going with one of the higher end options (both in terms of quality and cost).
1) That you should build up to it. That you should get your feet wet, buy something that’s okay quality and that doesn’t cost that much. Check it out, dabble with it for awhile, get your feet wet and then buy something better later on.
2) That you should pay a bit more from the get go and buy one of the better examples and get it over with. That life’s too short for badly built tools. That way you have a solid example of the platform to work with and that you can now see if you like it. That way you aren’t hampered by poor manufacturing and cut corners.
I mean think about it. You’d be saving two hundred and change to four hundred bucks in buying a WASR 10 or the like vs an Arsenal. That really isn’t that much, just so long as you actually shoot it if you think in terms of saving potential hassles.
If you don’t like it you’ll have no trouble off loading an Arsenal.
Totally up to you, but I’ve been down Hassle Blvd before.
wojownik
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^^^ Agreed that Arsenal has a name that can "command" better resale value. But bear in mind that Arsenals are not perfect either. There were trunnion issues with one batch, and a canted gas block/barrel is not unheard of.
You pay a premium for some rifles, and from some vendors. Atlantic Firearms, for example, will generally send out better (QC checked) rifles than certain others (Classic Firearms comes to mind). And if there is an issue, Atlantic will step up in a big way ... Classic, not so much. I've seen WASRs from Classic that were ... rough to say the least. Canted sights, ugly furniture, etc...
If OP goes the WASR route, strongly recommend getting from a source like Atlantic rather than Classic (if ordering online). Ditto with WBP rifles - the WBP rifles that came through Classic were built up by Lee Armory off of WBP kits - the Atlantic WBP rifles were a different animal altogether.
You pay a premium for some rifles, and from some vendors. Atlantic Firearms, for example, will generally send out better (QC checked) rifles than certain others (Classic Firearms comes to mind). And if there is an issue, Atlantic will step up in a big way ... Classic, not so much. I've seen WASRs from Classic that were ... rough to say the least. Canted sights, ugly furniture, etc...
If OP goes the WASR route, strongly recommend getting from a source like Atlantic rather than Classic (if ordering online). Ditto with WBP rifles - the WBP rifles that came through Classic were built up by Lee Armory off of WBP kits - the Atlantic WBP rifles were a different animal altogether.
blahpony
Member
But what size are you looking for?
Full size Yugo underfolder?
Pistol size with a brace?
Or perhaps a pistol sized one that shoots 9mm?
Full size Yugo underfolder?
Pistol size with a brace?
Or perhaps a pistol sized one that shoots 9mm?
Unheard of? No.
A great deal less likely than with other AK’s? Yes.
Any manufacturer you care to name has had issues at one time or another. That doesn’t apply just to AK’s either. We could just as easily be talking AR’s, pump shotguns or a slew of pistol companies. The only question is how often does it occur (QC) and what they do about it after.
I’m just saying it’s less likely with Arsenal.
If he goes that route, agreed.
<*(((><
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A couple of other good options for you; only need to add your choice in furiture:
Romanian receiver M10 Pro, $709.00 - https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-pro-diy
Romanian receiver M10, $519.00 - https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-762-diy
Romanian receiver M10 Pro, $709.00 - https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-pro-diy
Romanian receiver M10, $519.00 - https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-762-diy
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