Pistol handloads - what’s accurate to you?

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Admittedly I have a “good enough” attitude when it comes to loading for pistol. If I can get 3” @ 25 yards off the rest, I’m happy. But lately I’ve been wanting to tune for accuracy a bit more and I’m looking for some realistic goals to aim for.

When are you satisfied with the accuracy of a pistol handload?

It depends on what "pistol." If I can call a Thompson/Center Encore with a 13 to 15 inch barrel a pistol, then the answer is about 1.5 inches for a 3 inch group at 200 yards.

Les Baer guarantees their pistols to shoot 3 inches at 50 yards and, if you pay a bit more, 1.5 inches at 50 yards. If you do close to that with an off-the-shelf common handgun you're doing well.
 
I used to be able to shoot a 3" group of 41 mag high end loads at 25 yds, standing, off hand, unsupported.
I would hate to have to try that now.
Young eyes and steady hands have all the advantage of shooting the way I do.
Right now, if I can hit the 6" steel plates at 25 yds, standing, offhand, unsupported, with my guns, and my reloads, I am a happy guy. I love it when I can hit 17 out of 18 of the 6" plates with my 9mm 4" , or my .357mag 4".
I've done it a couple times recently, but those days are slipping away for me. Getting old really sucks! Makes me feel …. obsolete.
 
Standing, two handed, unsupported; if I can keep then within the spread of 4 fingers at 15 yards I feel good.
 
I don't shoot from a bench anymore, never really enjoyed it and it does nothing to improve ones capabilities with a handgun.

I shoot

Depends on the handgun and its use.

My DA's and semi-auto's I shoot at 25 yds. offhand and I expect the bullets to go exactly where the sights are when the sear breaks. Palm size groups will do.

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I'm much, much more demanding of my SA revolvers because I hunt with them. I shoot them mostly sitting, using my knees for a rest. 50 yds. used to be the range at which I did all of my shooting, but now I split my shooting between 50 and 75 yds. Six inch groups is about the largest I'll accept at 75.

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I bought a new Uberti Flat Top a year ago and it's really raised the bar where accuracy is concerned.

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35W
 
If I can get 3” @ 25 yards off the rest, I’m happy. But lately I’ve been wanting to tune for accuracy a bit more and I’m looking for some realistic goals to aim for.

When are you satisfied with the accuracy of a pistol handload?
I have long used the accuracy standard of 1" at 7 yards, 2" at 10-15 yards and 3" at 25 yards as reference baseline that most factory service pistols should be capable of using decent ammunition.

If I get smaller groups than that, I deem the load "accurate"

If I get 2" groups at 25 yards, I deem the load "very accurate" and I would be satisfied.


FYI, here's a listing of what various pistols are capable of at 25 yards - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10940688

Nighthawk Custom Hi-Power (25 yards) 0.74" to 1.71" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/4/11/tested-nighthawk-custom-hi-power/

EAA Witness Elite 1911 (25 yards) 0.82" to 1.41" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/5/tested-eaa-witness-elite-1911-polymer-pistol/

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Ruger PC carbine (50 yards) 1.13" to 1.42" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

Remington R1 M1911 (25 yards) 1.24" to 2.99" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/1/13/the-remington-r1-m1911/

KRISS Vector Gen II SDP 9 (25 yards) 1.33" to 1.53" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/19/tested-kriss-usa-vector-gen-ii-sdp-9-mm-pistol/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 (25 yards) 1.33" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/

Sig P225 (25 yards) 1.38" to 2.43" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/6/22/tested-sig-sauer-p225-a1-nitron-compact-pistol/

Ruger SR1911 Target (25 yards) 1.46" to 3.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/9/tested-ruger-sr1911-target-pistol/

Sig P226 Legion Series (25 yards) 1.58" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/15/tested-sig-sauer-legion-series-p226-pistol/

Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite (25 yards) 1.82" to 2.00" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/3/tested-ruger-mark-iv-2245-lite-pistol/

FN 509 (25 yards) 1.88" to 2.06" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/6/26/tested-the-fn-509-pistol/

H&K VP9SK (25 yards) 1.97" to 2.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/5/tested-heckler-koch-s-vp9sk-pistol/

Beretta APX (25 yards) 2.30" to 2.47" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/7/25/tested-beretta-s-apx-pistol/

CZ P-10 C (25 yards) 2.40" to 3.02" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/10/6/tested-cz-p-10-c-pistol/

Kimber Camp Guard 10mm (25 yards) 2.41" to 2.69" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/11/tested-kimber-camp-guard-10-pistol/

Springfield XDM 4.5" OSP (25 yards) 2.46" to 2.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/21/tested-springfield-xdm-45-osp-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger American (25 yards) 2.48" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/29/tested-ruger-american-pistol/

PSA 1911 Stainless Two-Tone (25 yards) 2.51" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...to-state-armory-1911-two-tone-premium-pistol/

Walther PPQ M2 Q4 Tac (25 yards) 2.53" to 2.76" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/19/tested-walther-ppq-m2-q4-tac-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger Security 9 (25 yards) 2.63" to 3.15" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/
 
This is not as easy as it sounds, as you are shooting with one hand, offhand. Those who shoot using a rest on top of some 300 lb concrete bench ought to see just how tight a group they can fire offhand, one handed, at these distances.

Boy ain't that the truth. I shot in the '92 divisional matches at Stone Bay back when I was a little younger. Got the trophy for winning the 25yd slow fire stage shooting NM course of fire. I "think" I shot a 97-4x using the M9 with standard ball issued ammo with the only time I was ever allowed to put my hand in your pocket as a Marine. The line NCO told me to relax and put my offhand in my pocket. Originally I was just hooking my thumb on my belt, but that keep your elbow bent. So he told me to put my hand in my pocket. It helped.
I recently (about 3 or 4 yrs ago) tried to use that same target at 25yrs with a very accurate 9mm STI and see what I could do for grins with one hand. No sense in even posting those results. Old eyes/not as stable hands don't help at all. Will just have to look at the trophy and remember.... the best I can remember things these days also. ;)

So my pistol shooting now isn't bullseye based and I just train to stay alive in a gun fight. If I have a load that gives me 3"+- at 25yds off from bags for a whole magazine I'll shoot that for defensive purposes all day long. Though lately I've got the accuracy bug for pistols to see what really makes a difference in accuracy.

Just my thoughts. You younger bucks better appreciate the young eyes and steady hands you have now and don't bust on us older guys to bad. Because at one time we could hold our own very well thank you.

Steve
 
You younger bucks better appreciate the young eyes and steady hands you have now and don't bust on us older guys to bad
Nope, we don't have to give up accuracy in shooting fun as we get older and eyesight gets worse because there is Point Shooting.

For defensive shooting distance less than 10-15 yards, point shooting can effectively and efficiently overcome handicap of not seeing the front sight clearly superimposed on target - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-situation-video.849479/page-2#post-11187013

I have recently taught many older shooters into 60s with difficult visualization of front sight against targets (with varying degree of shaky hands) and they are now able to produce fast and accurate double taps at will anywhere on target at 5-7 yards readily (even with eyes closed) and out to 10-15 yards with deliberate practice.

When they shoot with their uninitiated younger generation children, they are shocked at the way their parents are able to engage multiple targets with USPSA match proficient shooter speed and accuracy even with eyes closed. They look at me and ask, "What have you done and we want to learn point shooting too!"
 
Between 7 and 10 yards standing 2 hand hold I like to try to make them all touch. One ragged hole.
 
It really depends on the gun.
My Caspian oversized National match 1911. 2” at 50 yards when on the bags.
My Ruger LCRx snub barrel .327. 3” at 10 yards.

Unless it’s off a rest it’s hard to get those ragged hole groups past 10 yards without lots of practice.
 
It really depends on the gun.
My Caspian oversized National match 1911. 2” at 50 yards when on the bags.
My Ruger LCRx snub barrel .327. 3” at 10 yards.

Unless it’s off a rest it’s hard to get those ragged hole groups past 10 yards without lots of practice.

I shoot a lot
 
I don't feel privileged enough to even talk to you guys. Wish I was half as good as the worst of you fellows.
 
Nope, we don't have to give up accuracy in shooting fun as we get older and eyesight gets worse because there is Point Shooting.

For defensive shooting distance less than 10-15 yards, point shooting can effectively and efficiently overcome handicap of not seeing the front sight clearly superimposed on target - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-situation-video.849479/page-2#post-11187013

I have recently taught many older shooters into 60s with difficult visualization of front sight against targets (with varying degree of shaky hands) and they are now able to produce fast and accurate double taps at will anywhere on target at 5-7 yards readily (even with eyes closed) and out to 10-15 yards with deliberate practice.

When they shoot with their uninitiated younger generation children, they are shocked at the way their parents are able to engage multiple targets with USPSA match proficient shooter speed and accuracy even with eyes closed. They look at me and ask, "What have you done and we want to learn point shooting too!"

Oh I don't disagree with the scenarios you laid out abouve. I can hold my own against my son still to this day for tactical training/shooting. We train for head shot out to 25yds on call. But I don't kid myself that if my 23yr old son (who is a good shooter ad only getting better everyday) challenges me to a bullseye type challenge... I won't back down, but know first hand I can't even come close to shooting the same 25yd target I did back in '92 at 25yrs old.

Steve
 
When are you satisfied with the accuracy of a pistol handload?

I know I would be satisfied with your 3” at 25 yards.

I only have two handguns that would do that. They are guns that I think enough of that they get their own handloads. Most of my handloads are generic loads that have to work in multiple guns. So, I am good with a fist sized group (hole) centered at 10 yards or so. Its outliers that I look for. I don’t need a great group, but I don’t want to see any holes outside of where I want there to be holes.


Note 1:

I think its pretty clear that I run out of talent before many here on THR.

Note 2:

Rifle is a just whole different world. I’m pretty sure there isn’t anything I wouldn’t try to get a more consistently accurate load.
 
I’m an old Franklin Arsenal Rotary Tumbler. I pick up my P320 X5 Legion this week hopefully, with a RED DOT. I was advised to get the 6 MOA, so, I’ll let you know what that gun is capable of :).
I standardized my hand load development to include a target at 10 yards and then select those loads that have a 1” group or less and meet the other PF requirements. This is from a cheap bench rest.
I recently acquired a used Hyskore black rifle rest and am trying to build a pistol adapter for it. Hopefully that will take me out of the precision equation. Good luck!
 
Presbyopia, dontchaknow ... :(
Presbyopia - Thou art a heartless bitch. :(
The bottom line though, the weak link in my shooting (even off the bench) is me.
When I am working up a pistol load, I will generally use a rest, and if possible I use a laser sight, trying to take the human element out as much as possible. For most handgun loads, I am happy with 1” at 10 yards using that method. 25 yards would be a better test, but, you know, the old-eyes thing comes into play again. I can clearly see the holes at 10” without a spotting scope.

One of the hurdles that I have for finding a good handload, is multiple guns in the same caliber. I like my ammo to work well in all of them. It presents a challenge when you try to load for snub and a carbine in the same box of ammo.
I generally agree with that, but I found a really good load for my 9mm carbine that shoots so well in that, I have special loads just for it. They shoot ok in my other guns, but does not feed as reliably in one handgun due to the OAL I have to use in the carbine.

IMO unless you use a mechanical rest to remove the human factor you really can't test the accuracy of the gun or ammo correctly.
Exactly.

Depends on the handgun and its use.
I had to like that post, just for the pics of all the cool guns! :thumbup:
 
I’m an old Franklin Arsenal Rotary Tumbler. I pick up my P320 X5 Legion this week hopefully, with a RED DOT. I was advised to get the 6 MOA, so, I’ll let you know what that gun is capable of :).
I standardized my hand load development to include a target at 10 yards and then select those loads that have a 1” group or less and meet the other PF requirements. This is from a cheap bench rest.
I recently acquired a used Hyskore black rifle rest and am trying to build a pistol adapter for it. Hopefully that will take me out of the precision equation. Good luck!

I have two handguns with 6 MOA red dots on them. I really wish I had gone with 3 MOA dots or even smaller.

I've been using 1 MOA red dots on my AR pistol and carbines and have fallen in love with the smaller dot.

A 6 MOA dot is going to cover roughly 1.25" at 25 yards. That makes accuracy a bit harder.
 
Well.....FM23-35 dtd July 60, says with the Colt Detective Special, 2" barrel, qualification scores are: Ex= 200, Sharpshooter= 175, Marksman= 150. Marksman was minimum score.

Requires reload with 5 at each position, must be completed in 6 1/2 min. Uses "S" target (24 3/8" X 42")

prone 5 shots SA X 2 at 50 m
kneeling 5 shots SA X 2 at 40 m
sitting 5 shots SA at 30 m
standing 5 shots SA offhand 25 m
standing 5 shots SA behind barrier right 25 m
standing 5 shots SA behind barrier left 25 m
standing 5 shots SA offhand 25 m
standing 5 shots DA crouch 7 m

How did we do?
 
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Back in the 80's to early 90's I was a dedicated handgunner,to the extent that's about all I cared about. Hunting,loading and shooting with them.Then sorta drifted away but never got rid of anything. Back then knocking on the door of 1" @25 was a regular occurrence with quite a few guns. 744DW,Pythons,GC,#14,and an especially nice "early" 1980 629 Smiths.

Late last year my commander showed up(avatar) and really sparked the desire to shoot pistols again. Opened(cleaned up the junk) back up the indoor range,bought some new moulds,tinkered on the gun a bit and in general have just been enjoying the little 1911. Am building it's bigger brother now. Another Caspian frame with Colt 5" slide this time. The commander runs out of sight radius before 50 yds,haha.

My gallery or,indoor loads have been improving. Running about 1" on good days to 1 1/2 normally @ 10 yds,two handed standing. I'm 63 with VG eyesight but,lots of old injuries from construction and racing sportbikes. MANY broken bones but,motion is the lotion,gotta keep moving.
 
the first step is to get my handloads to shoot better than commercial loads. i take the additional steps and tinker with a load to make it "the best" with certain handguns.

murf
 
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