Would getting a more expensive AR-15 be worth it?

You currently have this thread going. The AR you have is a very good AR rifle.The S&W MP15 is one of the better over the counter AR rifles out there and while it may not deliver the high end accuracy of many of the more costly AR rifles out there I would not worry about adding another AR until you know you are better than the rifle you have. That said I am pretty sure your rifle has a 1:9 barrel twist rate so when choosing off the shelf ammunition you may want to consider that. You may also want to consider that off the shelf bulk ammunition will never give you what the rifle is likely capable of.

Based on your other running thread it seems you want to buy a gun and want a gun with a price point not to exceed $1,000. All things considered if I were you I would just add a little to your existing rifle.

bos19 said:

How easy is it to remove the factory handguard and install a new handguard?

Click to expand...

Yep as members have posted it's very easy to do and there are even a few videos out there detailing how to do it. Get the rifle so it fits you comfortable, the rifle must fit the shooter if you have any hopes of small groups. Then in time consider a trigger change, also very easy. I still contend that any money spent is wasted until you know you are as good as the rifle is right now.

Just remember it's about whatever trips your trigger and not the next shooters trigger. Eventually you may start rolling your own ammunition which will open more doors in the world of accuracy.

Ron

I picked up an original M&P sport as my first AR. Some time around 2011 or 2012 if I recall.

It is funny to me because I didn't realize at the time it was a good little shooter. I was so eager to mod the rifle that I didn't notice. It has had about 3 sets of furniture by now and I rattle canned it a homemade camo.

They really are a reliable AR-15. A lot of bang for your buck. It may not be helpful but you won't really go wrong if you decide to mod it out. You will have a lot of fun and learn alot about the platform. And if if you save up and by a nicer rifle you will have a new really nice rifle. It is a win-win no matter how you look at it.

It really cliche but AR's really are addicting especially if you are the type that likes to tweak or modify things to suit you or a specific purpose. I have better and nicer ones now but this one isnt going anywhere.

Here is a look at my M&P sport. Sort of through the years

bos19 said:

How easy is it to remove the factory handguard and install a new handguard?

Click to expand...

As many said it is usually easy. I've done it maybe 5 times. The Delta ring spring can be quit tight, or strong, on some rifles.
There is a tool that looks like two parallel rods with a device at the end that fits into the mag well. It's intended to pull the Delta ring back and it gives you leverage to make it easier. I recommend it.

Good Ol' Boy said:

You need to decide what you want it for first.

For me an AR is a CQC rifle. Most come with around a 16" barrel and it's fairly easy to put effective rounds on a man sized target 100yds and in.

Some folks like to do longer distance shooting with their ARs and test the boundaries, and one can certainly do that. That is where you get into the high cost IMHO.

As far as reliability and combat accuracy from 100yds in, pretty much any of your run of the mill entry level ARs are capable of that, certainly your Smith.

Click to expand...

Yep. The first thing you need to do is to determine what your use with it will be. For example a co-worker talked me into my first AR which was one I built myself. He enjoys shooting prairie dogs whereas I wanted mine for self-defense. Our performance goals are considerably different.

I used the experience I learned from my first AR when I built my second one. The second one checks all of the boxes for me. According to the Internet it should not be accurate with 55 gr. bullets due to having 1 in 7” twist barrel. Good thing it doesn’t read the discussion forums.

bos19 said:

How easy is it to build one?

Click to expand...

Pretty easy. It might seem intimidating buttThere's a ton of youtube videos as well as instructions on the forums. The biggest decision I had was deciding if I wanted to buy tools like vise blocks and armorers wrenches and do it right, or try to get by with the tools I had on hand. I opted to buy the tools, I'm pretty handy but I don't want to put a big scratch on my receiver before I even get to shoot it.

bos19 said:

Did you keep the M&P Sport or sell it/trade it?

Click to expand...

I kept it. For one, I don't like to lose money on guns I sell, and while I got a killer deal when I bought my Sport for just under $600 new several years ago, they can be found for even less now.

And two, it's still a great gun. Maybe I'll give it to one of my kids when they're old enough. Maybe it just collects dust in the safe. But in the political environment that AR15's live in, it's possible they could be outlawed one day and I figure having duplicates of them isn't a bad thing.

A few dollars spent wisely can vastly improve an AR. $10 in hammer/trigger springs will make the pull weight manageable. A good stock will make the rifle comfortable. A $30 H1 buffer will smooth out recoil. Applying $150 judiciously can work wonders.

Should that not be enough to dissuade you from a new rifle, I would suggest a new complete upper. If that suits you, you can spring for a better trigger and still be well under $700. At that point you could always pick up a complete lower for $100 on up.

I would suggest you spend some time shooting your rifle before you spend a significant amount of money on changing things around.

Boutique $2k ARs have never been a practical purchase, in my opinion. The cost/benefit of such an expenditure is much worse than building a purpose built rifle from scratch. Especially if you have the tools to build them.

I have some rifles that I built that are expensive, and that contain some specialty parts for competition, that might not be worthwhile to spend the money on for a truck gun or a hunting gun or a defensive gun.

With your M&P you have a solid base rifle, that will accept countless different configurations of triggers, stocks, handguards, optics, and other accessories. The trick is figuring out what you really want without buying dozens of different things to try. Don't be afraid to buy used on quality gear like Magpul, or high end optics. You can save a bunch of coin that way.

I generally avoid Ebay. Chinese fakes abound.

bos19 said:

I thought about customizing my M&P a bit, but my thought right now is to just save my money for now, get more time on the range with it, and maybe trade it in for something higher-end down the road.

Click to expand...

We talked about this a bit in your other thread about adding to your "collection". Seems like you don't want to sell your other rifles so I would take your $1000 and use it to pay for some good training. The M&P will work for now, although you may find some of it's limitations during a class.

bos19 said:

To be honest, I bought the M&P after doing a little research and shortly after, started to get the feeling that I should have spent more money to buy a higher-end AR like a Daniel Defense, LWRC, H&K, etc. I just didn’t want to build one because I had barely any experience with the AR platform before buying the M&P.

Click to expand...

Is there an accuracy or reliability requirement that isn't being met by your M&P?


I'm not a collector. I want my guns to shoot like I think they should. Beyond that, I'm not willing to pay a premium for things like H&K just because they are 'desirable' and cost more due to scarcity, or perceptions of prestige.

The only thing that makes Daniel Defense special is their hammer forged barrels. Which, while I am sure they are very good, you can buy a hammer forged barrel from Palmetto State Armory, and get a barrel that was actually forged by FN, who currently supplies barrels for M16s, M249 and M240 and M2 belt fed machine guns for the United States military.

If you want a boutique AR, go ahead and buy one. It is unusual for a properly assembled M4 clone to not meet the reliability and accuracy requirement of your typical American gun owner.

Is a Daniel Defense a better AR than a S&W M&P? Probably, although anyone can turn out a lemon once in a while. Is the difference worth spending $1k+ more for? Probably not, unless you carry a rifle in harms way and the probably better QC of DD may result in a more reliable rifle.


You aren't ever really going to know how good a rifle is unless you test it. 500-1500 rounds through a rifle and a given set of magazines will let you know what kind of reliability you can expect. Does it function when hot and dirty, at the tail end of a training day where you fire 300+ rounds with minimal opportunities to clean but perhaps a minute or two to add some oil here and there?


We all like to tweak things to suit us. Except for a Colt 603 clone, none of my rifles are in any kind of a factory offered condition. Go ahead and change what you want to change. Do you NEED a Daniel Defense instead of a S&W? Only you can determine that. Probably not. But if you want it and can afford it, go ahead.

bos19 said:

To be honest, I bought the M&P after doing a little research and shortly after, started to get the feeling that I bought a cheap plinker

Click to expand...

Do you intend to do anything other than plinking? There are very few gun owners who do anything else. As I mentioned in your other thread, most folks use their AR's primarily to lean in the corner of a closet. Very few put more than a few thousand rounds through them over the course of 5-10-20 years. If that's what the rifle will be used for, a cheap gun will work just fine.

bos19 said:

To be honest, I bought the M&P after doing a little research and shortly after, started to get the feeling that I bought a cheap plinker and that I should have spent more money to buy a higher-end AR like a Daniel Defense, LWRC, H&K, etc. I just didn’t want to build one because I had barely any experience with the AR platform before buying the M&P. Even after going to the range with it and not having any issues, I can’t shake the feeling that I bought a cheap, ineffective gun

Click to expand...

How does your S&W Sport II shoot? I have an original Sport (no dust cover or forward assist, but does have the 1 in 8" twist 5R rifled barrel) that was my first AR. I still have it, but did replace the furntiure with MagPul, and replaced the trigger with a RRA National Match 2 stage and it has shot great from the start (even before my upgrades). My latest AR is from PSA, where I got a great deal on a complete lower with Magpul STR stock and mated it to a PSA complete upper with floating fore end and stainless steel 1 in 7" twist 18" barrel and rifle length gas system. I like the PSA's light weight and rifle length gas system, but my old Sport actually shoots tighter groups off the bench, even with a lower power scope (a Redfield 2-7X).
So, if you want a "higher end" AR, go ahead and buy one, but there is no guarantee it will shoot significantly better than your S&W. And if your Sport II is meeting your shooting specifications, then consider upgrading it, if you want to try to improve it. I sort of followed your logic after having had my Sport for a year or so, and had my dealer order me a Stag Model 6 Varminter. It came with a 24" stainless bull barrel, 1 in 8" twist, rifle length gas system, competition 2 stage trigger and guaranteed to shoot 1/2 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards with appropriate ammo. It does that, but with a Vortex Viper 6.5-20X scope it is a hog, which is great for shooting from a rest, but not fun to lug around. It cost quite a bit more than my original Sport, even at dealer cost, and was worth it for the performance gains. Of course, an A2 build followed, and then the PSA lightweight rifle, and then the PA-10 .308 upper and lower. I guess I just prefer having more AR options than having a "cool factor" boutique AR. Your money, your choice.

bos19 said:

How easy is it to build one?

Click to expand...

My advise is to build the lower how you want it and buy a quality upper already assembled. Lots of great uppers out there based on your accuracy and handling needs.

The lower is probably the easier to build out how you want it.

Key to building an AR from all I’ve read is getting the gas system to mesh well with the proper buffer to ensure quality performance.

This is why I prefer to simply go with a quality upper.

YMMV.

Buzznrose said:

Key to building an AR from all I’ve read is getting the gas system to mesh well with the proper buffer to ensure quality performance.

This is why I prefer to simply go with a quality upper.

YMMV.

Click to expand...

The buffer is part of the lower receiver, not the upper. You can still mismatch the gas system and buffer/spring regardless of whether you assembled the upper or bought it complete.

bos19 said:

To be honest, I bought the M&P after doing a little research and shortly after, started to get the feeling that I bought a cheap plinker and that I should have spent more money to buy a higher-end AR like a Daniel Defense, LWRC, H&K, etc. I just didn’t want to build one because I had barely any experience with the AR platform before buying the M&P. Even after going to the range with it and not having any issues, I can’t shake the feeling that I bought a cheap, ineffective gun

Click to expand...

I don't have the link handy but watch iraqwarvet8888's meltdown video of the M&P Sport. They put the upper on a full auto lower and shoot it until it dies. I was impressed with how long the M&P lasted.

Building an AR can be very easy if you possess or are willing to acquire the knowledge in how to do it right.

If you don't take the time to learn how to do it properly, you might build a lemon. Proper tools, properly matching components, torque values, all make a difference. As does choosing quality parts. More expensive does not always mean better quality. But some stuff is cheap because it is junk, especially low end (under $150) optics.

Bare minimum for building a complete AR from component parts, tools you need are:

Solid vice mounted on a solid bench.
Barrel vice or BEV block or Reaction Rod.
Torque wrench.
Screwdriver set with a variety of hex and flat head bits.
Large set of vice grips (or) a set of roll pin punches.
Needle nose pliers.
A small amount of molybdenum grease for the barrel nut threads.
You will also need an appropriate wrench that will accept your torque wrench to torque the barrel nut in place. BCM, for one example, includes such a wrench with their KMR handguards.



There are a wide assortment of handguards and stocks on the market. Some of them require unique spanner wrenches to be torqued. It is impossible to list all the tools you MIGHT need.


I have built a few...

My first AR was a M&P15 sport II as well, I was late to the AR game. Didn't take long for me to fully embrace the AR. Each shooting session with the M&P15 I asked myself what I either didn't like or what could be better. Ended up in this configuration. I have other AR's now, but none really are significantly better than my current M&P configuration.

The advantage of building your own is that you can buy exactly the parts you want and save money by not having take-off parts that you paid for but may not be in high demand to be able to sell.

You can also help your friends build their own and they will do things like bring over a six pack of beer in exchange of using your tools.

The disadvantage is that it is so easy to do, it is hard to keep ARs from multiplying in your safe..... Thus negating the saving money aspect.


Just something as simple as being able to swap a muzzle device in your own garage in 5 minutes is worth having the tools. I shoot 3-gun and when my barrel is finally worn out I will pull it myself and take the replacement out of the safe and install it back on the existing rifle. New bolt to go with the new barrel and off I go.

bos19 said:

Unfortunately I don’t have my own equipment and don’t have a way to set up a proper workstation with my current living situation.

Click to expand...

Enjoy your current rifle. It is a fine rifle.

You can do some things. You can change out the trigger with almost no tools at all. Just a screwdriver to remove the grip. Some triggers can be swapped without removing the grip. (You need to remove the grip to remove the safety selector.)

A trigger is the single biggest upgrade you can make on an AR, in many cases.

Likewise you can add high quality optics with just a screwdriver.

I have often said I would rather have a $500 rifle with a $1000 scope than vice versa.

Your AR is capable of doing the vast majority of what anyone ever does with an AR15.

Keep what you have and buy more AR15's.

Buy a couple parts kit guns from PSA:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/daily-deals-new.html

For example, I have assembled (more or less) 3 of the following AR pistol kits.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ic-shockwave-pistol-kit-black-5165449175.html

Purchase a stripped receiver from your local gun shop and watch a couple youtube videos on how to assemble the lower receiver.


Every time I assemble a lower receiver, I refresh myself with a youtube video on the process.

My first (and only AR at the moment) is a DPMS Sportical. It's not the greatest, but with a few minor upgrades, it's a good shooting rifle. Changed out the fore grip with an aluminum drop in quad rail, pistol grip and a JP reduced spring kit (only changed trigger spring). Rifle has a very smooth and easy trigger pull and pretty accurate for what it is. Will it do 1(-)MOA? Nope, but will group at around 3" at 100 yrds. Plenty good for what I need it to do, mostly self defense at short ranges and hog eradication. Put down many a hog with it, longest shot being at around 125yrds, most around 35-75yrds.