Two M&P but one is more accurate?

ohihunter2014 said:

I would agree with that but same ammo, same grip, same stand, same distance. I would put 17rd through one, lay it down and then pick up the other and do the same and out of 2 times the newer one stomped my older one.

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Right, but still too many variables for us to say. And different guns like different ammo. https://www.shootingillustrated.com...mo-accuracy-15-loads-in-three-different-guns/

Shooting offhand is not a good way to test accuracy. A machine rest is required, and lots of shots.

How big are the actual groups? Vague comments are not not helpful.

ohihunter2014 said:

I have to say I was very shocked that the new one did that.

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When S&W shipped the "new and improved" triggers on the M&P 1.0, I was eager to test them and got to test as LGS got them off the pallets.

Compared to first generation triggers, the new improved triggers were like day and night. Much smoother and lighter and more consistent. While the first generation trigger jerked the front sight all over the place, the improved triggers were more like factory Glock triggers out of the box (IMO Glock triggers were still better and that's not saying much ).

I have not shot any M&P 2.0 but based on reviews and range reports, S&W must have improved the trigger further as switch to 1:10 twist rate barrel already happened years ago.

ohihunter2014 said:

I would say tennis ball group and the other like 10'' group.

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Call S&W customer service right now and reference your precious post.

That's similar to what another THR member experienced with his Ruger barrel (It was oversized from factory) and when he got the .355" replacement barrel, he got tight groups all day everyday (And he shoots bullseye matches ).

Since this is a known issue and IMO you have more than enough evidence, I would simply go to S&W customer service next.

They may offer anything from barrel swap to full pistol send back to factory.

If you're serious about testing accuracy, it should be done off a bench with the gun on some support. You want to reduce as much as possible any influence you might have on the gun.

And try different types of ammo. What ammo are you using?

On the S&W Forum there has been an extended discussion about M&P 1.0 and 2.0 barrel designs. Randy Lee, an engineer at Apex, responsible for the new 2.0 Apex barrel, talks about the research they did into improving barrel performance for their new barrel. In the process, Apex found that the 9mm M&P 1.0 slide was stretching just a bit during the firing cycle, while the .40 and .45 versions did not stretch (due to extra metal in the slide in the chamber area).

This was determined by Apex using very high speed digital photography. Randy Lee talked about how they also found a better way to improve barrel lockup with their new barrel design.

Go to the S&W Forum and do a search on "Randy Lee, Barrel Design" and you'll be able to find other links. It's a fascinating series of discussions. Some of the discussions that came out of my questions led to a much wider discussion. The site I'm referencing is smith-wessonforum.com

I've got a very nice M&P 1.0 Pro model (longer barrel) that had all sorts of work done to it prior to my getting it in trade and I've been tempted to send it to Apex to let their gunsmith install one of their new barrels. I apparently greatly improves accuracy. You can find very good, detailed instructions on how to FIT the new barrels on the APEX site, too.

I'm sure S&W learned from all of this, and incorporated some of the Apex findings in their 2.0 versions of the M&P Gun. I think the 2.0 slide 9mm slide is beefed up in the the area where the stretching took place.

ohihunter2014 said:

So I shot a brand new M&P 1.0 9mm against my M&P 1.0 9mm that’s about 13yo with the same ammo and mine throws them all over but the new one purchased 2 weeks ago makes a ragged hole freehand. I dry fired it and the trigger feels a hair better than mine. Just curious what could be off with mine? It’s got a new recoil spring but I bet that barrel has 5-7k rounds through it. It’s also dirty. I tested it again and same accuracy result. Just curious what you guys think?

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S&W had problems with earlier 1.0 M&P's. The problem was accuracy. I had a M&P9c that was inaccurate and sold it replaced with my G26.

I believe this problem was fixed with later 1.0 and certainly 2.0

There are posts on this problem in various forums. This was a barrel problem not so much trigger.

Jeb Stuart said:

Just for the heck of it, switch recoil springs and see how it shoots.

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In the vein of "for the heck of it", I'd see what happened when switching barrels as well.

ohihunter2014 said:

So I shot a brand new M&P 1.0 9mm against my M&P 1.0 9mm that’s about 13yo with the same ammo and mine throws them all over but the new one purchased 2 weeks ago makes a ragged hole freehand.

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ohihunter2014 said:

I have been playing with the idea of selling mine and buying a 2.0 but it’s sentimental due to me purchasing it on my 21st birthday. Part of me is saying put a new barrel in it and part of me says get something newer.

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Just realized that I'm not clear on one thing. Are the two 1.0's that you compared accuracy between them both yours? If you have access to the newer one (perhaps it's owned by a friend?) switch out the barrels and see if a new barrel would make the difference. Then try swapping the recoil springs both with the original barrels for each gun and then with the "wrong" springs. See what effect those have on accuracy.

Thanks guys I wasn’t aware of all the issues they had in the past or that they stop production of the 1.0. I figured they were still making them cause I still see them for sale new along with shield 1.0.

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They're liquidating back stock.

ohihunter2014 said:

Its owned by a friend of mine. I could have them meet me there and do some testing but their barrel may not be fitted for my gun.

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The reason the prices on guns today are low is that they have less hand fitting and greater tolerances. I have swapped barrels from different guns of the same model and caliber and as long as it can be racked without binding it would be okay.
The key is to work the action to be sure there's no binding and everything works smoothly. Since it'd be from what is essentially the same gun using the same ammo, there should be no issue. Just make sure everything fits without having to force anything.

FlSwampRat said:

The reason the prices on guns today are low is that they have less hand fitting and greater tolerances.

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A year or two ago, prior to it being discontinued, you could buy a new Browning Hi-Power sold for roughly the same price that they sold for 15-20 years ago, despite significant inflation during that same period. A lot of other guns sell for roughly the same price that they sold for 15-20 years ago, even the pricier metal-framed one.

I'll agree that some of these gun do require less hand fitting and SOME have greater tolerances (that's certainly the case with Glocks), but a lot of the reduction in hand-fitting (which was a big cost burden for most guns) is due to improved production technology which makes hand fitting, while still desirable, less necessary. The fact that polymer frames can be functionally similar to metal frames, but can be produced for much less cost, certainly helps keep some prices lower -- but even metal-framed guns are relatively inexpensive, nowadays.

CZ made a number of changes to their production processes (starting with their P-01) a few years ago to allow for more consistency in their production methods. I"m sure other manufacturers are doing or have done the same.


A "drop-in" barrel, like a factory S&W barrel (or an Apex barrel) will function well and perform quite well when dropped end by the owner, but a gunsmith fit barrel for the same gun MIGHT perform much better.

Walt Sherrill said:

A "drop-in" barrel, like a factory S&W barrel (or an Apex barrel) will function well and perform quite well when dropped end by the owner, but a gunsmith fit barrel for the same gun MIGHT perform much better.

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Yeah, my suggestion to the OP was contingent on him having access to both guns and be able to swap parts between them, checking for a performance jump with one single swapped part. If the older gun suddenly becomes tighter grouping with the other gun's barrel/recoil spring/slide you know the bad/worn part and can just order a replacement. With the lack of needed hand fitting there wouldn't even need to be a gunsmith involved. cheapest way to diagnose the problem.