Bobbing hammer=more reliable strike?

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HB

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I have a Taurus 94 .22 LR that I cut to 2” as a double for my .38... cheaper practice with a worse trigger is good for me.

However, in SA I get light strikes about 40% of the time. In DA I get failures to ignite about 10%.

I am thinking about polishing all making surfaces and shimming/slicking up contact between the frame and the hammer.

Will bobbing the hammer make the hammer light enough to get better ignition in DA? I primarily will use this as an understudy for my .38 snub. But keeping the spur would be nice for pot shots at squirrels.

Edit: this thing was cheap and appeared to live in jon boat for most its life. My home crown looks better than what Taurus did as well.

HB
 

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Will bobbing the hammer make the hammer light enough to get better ignition in DA?

.....

Edit: this thing was cheap and appeared to live in jon boat for most its life. My home crown looks better than what Taurus did as well.

HB

The issue with bobbing a hammer is you reduce the mass of the hammer, which I believe can cause light strikes.

I would suggest you consider replacing the mainspring, and check that the firing pin is moving freely.
 
Yup - bobbing the spur will reduce the tip mass of the hammer. It increases the speed, but significantly reduces the weight, which USUALLY ends up as a net loss in ignition power - at least in the context of revolvers. I’ve tuned a lot of Taurus revolvers over the years, the answer is almost always to keep the mainspring power high, reduce resistance in the hammer fall, and maximize pin travel.

Compare your pin protrusion in two cases:
1) hammer down on transfer bar as if normally fired

2) transfer bar pressed against frame with a tool, hammer cocked

I expect, as I do with all transfer bar factory revolvers, there’s considerable firing pin stroke to be gained by reducing the hammer nose. As measured by the test outlined above.
 
Does anybody know what the factory spring weight is on a 94? I have some springs from other revolvers that may work.

My understanding is on PPC or ICORE type guns they lighten the springs then use a lighter hammer for better ignition and stick with federal primers.

I dont want to spend more than a few bucks on this project. I doubt Taurus will do warranty work on it considering I used a hacksaw on the barrel.
 
I expect, as I do with all transfer bar factory revolvers, there’s considerable firing pin stroke to be gained by reducing the hammer nose. As measured by the test outlined above.

Makes sense. Would filing the hammer damage the hardening? It appears to be case hardened.
 
However, in SA I get light strikes about 40% of the time. In DA I get failures to ignite about 10%.

This is odd. I'm no expert on Tauri, but usually the cocked SA hammer position is slightly further rearward than the furthest travel of the DA stroke. This means that the SA mode should hit slightly harder than the DA mode.

Suggests something is impinging/rubbing internally that is robbing the hammer of velocity, and that whatever that is happens more fully or frequently with an SA cocking situation.

I'd look for the root cause.
 
Making the hammer lighter (ie reducing it mass moment of inertia about its pivot pin), assuming you are not making any changes to the springs keeps the primer impact energy the same. The hammer only has the energy given to it by the spring. That said the lighter hammer is now moving faster to achieve that same energy level and thus will have a faster lock-time and higher impact velocity. Most of the revolver shooters I shoot with find that bobbed and skeletonized hammer can be run with lighter hammer spring and still have a reliable ignition. Sharp fast primer impacts are more reliable than slower heaver impacts at the same energy level. Remember primers are shear velocity sensitive so the faster you can deliver the impact the more reliable ignition will be.

There is a reason most of the top USPSA revolver shooters are running extremely skeletonized hammers and reduced hammer spring and its not just to look cool and they don't tolerate light strikes. They can run lighter trigger pull and still have reliable ignition, and if they run Federal primers exclusively they can turn that down a bit more. YMMV
 
This all was very helpful. I cleaned the heck out of the chambers as well. I believe some hammer energy was wasted in “seating” the cases. Now they slide freely as they should.

Thanks for the tips on polishing this turd.
 
FWIW, one of the guys I used to shoot with was an engineer who worked with the primer part of ammunition for a major manufacturer. I once asked him whether a light and fast impact or a heavier slower impact was better for primer ignition. He told me lighter and faster was better...
 
Let’s be sure we’re talking apples-to-apples here, as what’s good for the goose isn’t always good for the gander.

Full frame, centerfire revolvers used in competition have luxuries J frame (small frame), rimfire revolvers like the 94 in question just don’t have. Shorter frames, shorter hammer shanks, and tougher ignition are problems the competition revolver doesn’t face. Larger frame revolvers are simply easier to make run reliably due to the longer hammer arc, and centerfire ammunition is easier to ignite, equally improving reliability.

When we skeletonize hammers for competition, we have to leave sufficient mass in the tip to ensure ignition by sufficient angular momentum upon impact. It’s not a challenge to figure out empirically by cutting up a few hammers, but many, many unwitting shooters have realized they lose reliability when they simply bob their spurs. If the mass of the hammer is further reduced by skeletonizing the shank and body, that reliability returns, as the lockspeed skyrockets.

Most often, when a Taurus comes to my bench with reliability issues - very often for rimfire versions - reducing the nose of the hammer corrects the issue. Increasing spring rate helps as added insurance.

I’ve been told by Taurus reps at various times their hammers are “heat treated” or through hardened, and also that they are not hardened at all, but never that they were case hardened. I’ve also been told by their tech reps that nothing is done to reharden after the part has been fit at the factory (which would coincide with through hardening, or no hardening). To be blunt, their hammers aren’t very hard, whether they’re hardened or not. I’ve never skated a file or stone on a Taurus hammer - and I have fit dozens of them over the last ~20yrs, while alternatively, their frames and cylinders are notably harder when you run a file across them for fitting work. I have, however, improved ignition reliability in those dozens of Taurus revolvers, and further couple hundred other transfer bar revolvers of other makes in that same time, including many of my own, which have taken thousands of rounds of dry fire and live fire without peening the hammer nose. The transfer bar will remain the impingement surface and the firing pin and spring will remain the resistance which aborts the hammerfall, and the hammer nose will not make hard contact with the frame during decocking. In simpler, more direct terms - absolutely nothing is gained by having a hardened surface on the hammer nose of a transfer bar revolver, and nothing is lost if that surface were not hardened. But again, the hardening I have been described isn’t case hardening, so such consideration is largely moot.

Alternatively, I would counter - the hammer nose is also often mal-formed, such only a small portion of the nose actually contacts the frame. Hardened steel - if we believe they’re

Here’s a link to a project I documented a few years ago, consistent (save the cylinder replacement) with the same action work I have done on many DA revolvers over the years. This particular revolver was quite short on firing pin protrusion, and maximizing it helped increase reliability.

Huntingnet.com Taurus Revival thread

About halfway through the original post, I included this photo, above which is some narrative about reducing the hammer nose to increase firing pin penetration, and resultingly increase reliability of ignition.

9E3BD595-7A52-42C1-955B-40144E123482.jpeg
 
I dont own any Taurus handguns, but I have bobbed the hammers on a couple of S&W's, and currently have a 64 that has a bobbed hammer, and Ive never had any issues with the guns misfiring or having light strikes.

Ive owned/own a number of used Smiths where people backed the strain screw out trying to make the trigger lighter and that did cause light strikes. Just bought a 625 this past month that had the screw backed almost all the way out, and had that very issue.
 
F=ma. If you reduce the mass, you get more acceleration and theoretically equal force because the force is ultimately determined by the potential energy in the compressed spring(s). You cannot "disappear" the spring's energy by lightening the hammer. But we do have some losses due to friction and drag. Are those losses principally different with a lighter, faster hammer? I don't think the difference is meaningful outside the most extreme possibilities. On the other hand, if there is excessive friction, obstruction, or misfit parts, that could cause a problem with any hammer weight, as could a weak or worn spring.
 
Half science isn’t science. F= ma is only the backside of the spring force, and the deceleration of the

Spring force F = Kx this is the spring constant multipled by the spring compression. This is the force exerted by the spring upon the hammer strut. (Which is then translated to rotational inertia when the hammer is accelerated by the spring, based on the position of the strut pivot relative to the hammer pivot pin).

Angular momentum L = Iw, this is the tendency for the hammer to ultimately effect the primer upon impact. I is analogous to mass, but in a rotational system. Effectively, when we reduce mass, we’re reducing this vector quantity.

So half math isn’t math, even if it does bamboozle unwitting readers who don’t understand any better.
 
I will fire the revolver this weekend with a base of “extremely clean” and well lubed. If that doesnt work, ill take a few passes with the file and try again. I doubt the mainspring is too weak. Fire pin protrusion and poor/sloppy tolerances make sense.
 
Measure the hammer nose and pin protrusion before changing anything. If it isn’t over length, you can negate the transfer bar function, making the revolver unsafe.
 
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I expect, as I do with all transfer bar factory revolvers, there’s considerable firing pin stroke to be gained by reducing the hammer nose. As measured by the test outlined above.

I did that on a Taurus 38 model 82 I had that would have an occasional misfire. It was simple to do and solved the problem 100%.
 
Try an entirely new spring setup after polishing all hammer contact points and lubing spring as well-
I’ve got two 94s that work great with all ammo after doing this;
“Finally found the right combo of springs for my Taurus 94 revolvers. wolff 6.5 lb trigger return spring for model 85 and wolff 12 lb hammer spring for model 66 (cut to stock length). This gives approx 9 lb double action pull and a beautiful 2.25 lb single action pull, all with positive ignition using cci,agila,federal,remington, and armscor ammo.”
 
While I don;t own a Taurus I have bobbed the hammer on several Smiths including two M60's and a M637 as well as a two M65's and a factory bobbed 64 and I have NEVER had a light hammer strike. I do not lighten any springs.
 
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