22 Magnum as a survival rifle?

MechAg94 said:

The only issue I would have with 22 mag is noise. There are options to quiet down 22 LR with ammo choice or a suppressor. With 22 mag, is the extra range and power enough to justify the inability to go quiet? For either, it would be easy to store a single firearm and a pile of ammo in a compact package. If you expect the potential for dangerous animals or people, making less noise may be very important.

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If a shooter already owns a .22 WMR rifle, that shooter can turn the noise down a notch with sub-sonic .22 WMR ammo. Having the extra punch of .22 WMR while being able to dial down the power to .22LR in the same gun could be pretty useful. Same idea of that .357 magnum rifle mentioned upthread with .38 special loaded in it.
https://www.natchezss.com/wincheste...mmunition-22-wmr-45gr-jhp-1060-fps-50-ct.html

Legionnaire said:

I really like the .22 WMR. I had a Savage 24 in .22 WMR over a 20 gauge for a lot of years and it took a fair number of squirrels. And it was a great companion rifle to a Single Six with a .22 WMR cylinder. I don't still have the Savage, but I do still have the Single Six, and a 77/22 in .22 WMR.

But how about the .357 mag as an alternative? A 77/357 is a handy bolt action if the action is critical, but the cartridge is also available in lever actions and single shots. The cartridge can be paired easily with a good revolver, can be reloaded, and that across a wide spectrum of power factor.

No question in my mind that for a wilderness-type survival situation, I'd prefer a cartridge that can be fired in a handgun as well as a long gun. Just not sure which one I'd opt for.

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Balrog said:

I hadn't thought much about the 357 as an option, but it certainly would be. A Ruger 77/357 with a low powered scope paired with a revolver in 357 would certainly handle most situations well and one round that works in both guns solves the logistical issue of having to carry to different types of ammo if you want a long gun and a hand gun.

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If I could go back in time before I went to .22 WMR, I would have went the Ruger 77/357 route. A lightweight carbine in stainless with a polymer stock from the factory? Seems perfect. Pair it up with a stainless revolver of some sort and that should make a very good pair.

I think @Jeb Stuart's idea of a break action shotgun combined with a couple of inserts has merit. One version of the Chiappa M6 in .22WMR/20 gauge comes with four inserts.

And I kinda like the look of the Double Badger.

Balrog said:

Curious what the thoughts of the group would be on the use of a 22 Magnum bolt action rifle for survival purposes would be.

There are some advantages. First, the rifles are usually light in weight. Both Savage and Ruger make 22 mag rifles with weights of six pounds or less. The ammo is light also, meaning you could carry a good bit.

As for the cartridge, it is admittedly weaker than most centerfires. But for small game and varmint sized animals, it is fine. It is a little marginal for self defense against people, but out of a carbine or rifle, the 22 mag is not bad.

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I have been a fan of the 22 mag since the early 1980s when I bought a Marlin 783 in 22 mag. Still have it to along with an 883 in stainless and laminate wood. I have 5500 rounds of 22 mag on hand. I bought 4,000 rounds of Armscor 22 mag when Sportsmans Guide had it for $5.65 a box. Armscor is good stuff. They load the 22 mag sold by Fiochhi.

I don't like the CCI 22 mag rounds because of the soft, mushy plated bullets they load their ammo with. I prefer the Armscor or Winchester because they both come with a real jacketed bullet. The gunwriter Ross Seyfried took a 22 mag to Africa and used it to kill several whitetail sized animals and reported that it worked very well in that use. So it should work fine for a deer round if needed.

My bud wanted some holes shot in his new burn barrel. I used my 22 mag and the rounds easily went through both sides of that steel drum. I also shot it with a 22 from a rifle. THe 22 bullets would go through one side but none made it back out. There is a real step up in power with a 22 mag over 22lr round.

Here is a good article from Paco Kelly about a man who used a 22WRF rifle and handgun before the 22 mag was invented. The information should apply here.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/survival.htm

Ratshooter said:

I have been a fan of the 22 mag since the early 1980s when I bought a Marlin 783 in 22 mag. Still have it to along with an 883 in stainless and laminate wood. I have 5500 rounds of 22 mag on hand. I bought 4,000 rounds of Armscor 22 mag when Sportsmans Guide had it for $5.65 a box. Armscor is good stuff. They load the 22 mag sold by Fiochhi.

I don't like the CCI 22 mag rounds because of the soft, mushy plated bullets they load their ammo with. I prefer the Armscor or Winchester because they both come with a real jacketed bullet. The gunwriter Ross Seyfried took a 22 mag to Africa and used it to kill several whitetail sized animals and reported that it worked very well in that use. So it should work fine for a deer round if needed.

My bud wanted some holes shot in his new burn barrel. I used my 22 mag and the rounds easily went through both sides of that steel drum. I also shot it with a 22 from a rifle. THe 22 bullets would go through one side but none made it back out. There is a real step up in power with a 22 mag over 22lr round.

Here is a good article from Paco Kelly about a man who used a 22WRF rifle and handgun before the 22 mag was invented. The information should apply here.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/survival.htm

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Enjoyed the article very much. Especially the quote from Frost.
"But to paraphrase and add to what Robert Frost wrote long ago... The woods are lovely dark and deep. And I would stop and rest...to look upon God’s very best...But I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep...and miles to go before I sleep...but as I walk among the shadows of the trees during the quiet times of ease, I know that I am whole...I know the very rhythm of nature, for it is part of my soul..so very concerned I may be...but I fear not, not me! I know the truth, and the truth has set me free....!"

I can really relate to it. I hunt the Dismal Swamp often and similar places. Usually my sidearm is the LCR9mm. Simple reliable. I carry extra loaded moon clips in this water proof container. It holds 3 moon clips. (15 rounds) And last year actually hunted with the Light weight Midland Back Pack. The LCR is small, and easy to carry through the swamps and Forrest.



That said, as far as survival, it would seem the 22.cal is fine and you have to consider what game you would be going after. I have been doing a lot of scouting in the past couple of weeks.. Each day, I saw Squirrel, Turkey, Turtles, Rabbits, and later in the day Raccoons and of course plenty of yummy snakes, frogs, birds. All of which could be easily shot with a 22.cal and not mess up much meat, especially head shots.
The Backpack 12 ga. would take down the Deer which most I have shot have all been Around 25 yds or under. It would also take take down the occasional Black Bear. And would provide me protection from two legged creatures.

Glad you liked it Jeb. Earlier the 357 rifle was mentioned. A 357 would do for me too. My 357 Marlin is my favorite gun. If I can reload for it I can use it in the same roles as a 22lr all the way up to a big game round as long as I mind the ranges.

When I was a young man of about 18 an older guy told me if I ever get a chance pick up a 22 mag rifle. He told me if I liked my 22 I would like the mag even more. Three years later I bought my first 22 mag. The above mentioned Marlin 783 from WM for $115. I would like to say I have shot thousands of rounds but its more like around 1,500 or so. But I have shot it enough to appreciate it for what it is.

I also have an H&R 223 single shot that with reloading should make it a versatile gun to own. But I haven't played with it much. But it is a shooter. At 100 yards it put 30 rounds in just over an inch. I was having so much fun shooting it I didn't realize I had fired that many rounds. It would also make a great survival type gun or gun for woods bum or person living deep in the woods in a small cabin. But lots of guns would work in this situation. A good rifle paired with a shotgun and you are set.

Balrog said:

Wow, what line of work are you in that you have seen many people take as many as 10 rounds of 22 mag and 25 rounds of 22LR before they finally went down?

I have been a trauma surgeon for over 20 years. Its not uncommon to see someone shot more than once, but not 10 to 25 times. I have not once seen someone shot with a 22 Magnum.

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I used to be a paramedic in my younger days, albeit those two guys weighed in around 450lbs too. Never made it to any vital organs.

Legionnaire said:

I think @Jeb Stuart's idea of a break action shotgun combined with a couple of inserts has merit. One version of the Chiappa M6 in .22WMR/20 gauge comes with four inserts.

And I kinda like the look of the Double Badger.

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That M6 .22mag /20 gauge with all those inserts looks handy !

Ratshooter said:

Here is a good article from Paco Kelly about a man who used a 22WRF rifle and handgun before the 22 mag was invented. The information should apply here.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/survival.htm

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I love that old story.

I love the idea of the 22mag in a hiking then lost survival situation except it won't stop a charging bear but what are those chances.
Then in the chance of WTSHTF most of us aren't alone, family matters!
Then it is like we only move as fast as the weakest one. Also the old & very young are to be protected.
Do we hold up with what we have or move. If we move what do we leave behind?
The 22mag would be ok as backup at home but not on the move, all those AR guys are out there.
The M1A1 would be great in a shelter situation but to heavy & ammo heavy, this isn't war it is survival.
Bad as I hate to say it the AR in 223.

22 MAG jacketed hollow tip bullets hit like mini-grenades producing ghastly wound channels. A good rifleman could down deer sized animals with head shots within reasonable distances. I've never done this myself but read about an infamous poacher in northern California who toppled several dozen mulies with his 22 MAG rifle. All head shots.

TR

a acquired a marlin 22 mag in a trade with a lot of ammo... I bought a similar model marlin cheap after that. I always thought they were a great truck gun for Ohio where we do not have many bear... or did not anyhow... they are here now although still fairly rare. I figured for defense or forage they were pretty good choices and several hundred rounds are easy to pack n carry if needed. I sure as heck would not stand in front of one out just past 200 yards and as others state deer sized game with oroper shots work pretty well in an emergency. I doubt it would be one of the first guns I would buy... and it was not but they are decent for a normal survival role for most- not necc the end all in the game but decent enough

Balrog said:

Curious what the thoughts of the group would be on the use of a 22 Magnum bolt action rifle for survival purposes would be.

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survive what? SHTF, Alien invasion? if you are looking for something to put food on the table and defend you from 2 leg attackers well, a bolt action in 223 with a 22lr conversion bullet.

I have always liked this video. If I ever find a beater Marlin model 25 I will modify it just like in this video. What a great truck gun this would make.

22MAG...NOPE!
22LR or 223 REM are more widely available

Offfhand said:

A very practical survival combination would be the .22 Mag in a rifle like the Armalite AR-7 Explorer. If available I would buy a few as gifts for my pals who have everything.

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They were called the AR-5, a bolt action older brother to the AR-7 in .22 Hornet. One design I like is the Pak-Rifle, a one pound breakdown single shot. Only comes in .22LR, but I think it'd be good in magnum flavor or even one of the .17 rimfires.

Since others have thrown out different things. Here's my suggestion. I once had a situation where the AR-7 I had carried for decades seemed very in adequate. Three young healthy antagonists and me with only the AR-7. It worked, no shots were fired, but still...

As a result I came up with "The Perfect Jeep Gun" It started life as an unassuming Mossberg 500 in .410. But they are long and storage in a jeep is scant. So, I shortened the barrel, put on a synthetic youth stock then modified the thing to be easily taken down and reassembled. Darned near as fast as the AR-7, and I still don't need any tools.
Here it is with the aforementioned AR-7 for comparison.

A bit longer assembled, but with 5 rounds of whatever you want from #9 to slugs much more effective

Disassembled it isn't much longer than the AR-7

I've owned four of them with varying degrees of success. Two were okay, one mediocre, the last one total junk. Have this love-hate thing with them. Love the design and in its intended role is perfect. Execution of it over the years hasn't been, and it's niche is pretty narrow. Perfect truck/trunk gun, in a boat or plane, but not so good as a plinker and regular critter getter. I'm still tempted by them and if I get another I'll have owned one made by all three makers of it.

I recently acquired two of the Chiappa Double Badger, one in .22LR over a .410 shotgun, and the other .22WMR/.410 shotgun, both fold up to about 21" and fit in a back pack, either one is capable of stopping a human as well as a rabid animal attack when loaded appropriately. Both are accurate enough to take care of game within reasonable distances. Myself I prefer the .22WMR over the .22LR, as was mentioned most are capable o0f carrying an abundant amount of ammunition.

Well I would not mind having the option of shooting the occasional .22WMR in my AR. Unfortunately I can not seem to find a current and safe address for MCACE and that urks me greatly.

I have a single shot adaptor for .22LR in .223 and it has worked well enough in an AR-180 and a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle.

would not mind trying .22Mag in all and a AR15

-kBob

jeepnik said:

As a result I came up with "The Perfect Jeep Gun" It started life as an unassuming Mossberg 500 in .410. But they are long and storage in a jeep is scant. So, I shortened the barrel, put on a synthetic youth stock then modified the thing to be easily taken down and reassembled. Darned near as fast as the AR-7, and I still don't need any tools.
Here it is with the aforementioned AR-7 for comparison.

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Jeepnik I wish you would tell a little more about the mods to the .410 and how you made the buttstock easy to remove. I like 410 shotguns after I found out how much better they were than the internet would have you believe. The local WM had them just a couple of years ago for $219 IIRC. I should have picked one up.

Several years ago when I still did mobile home service work a dealer I worked for took a Remington express 410 in on trade. He asked what I would give him for it? I told him $125. Sold he said. I really didn't think I wanted a pump 410 so I listed it in the local paper for $250. I have never in my life had so many calls for a gun. I could have sold a truck bed full of 410 pumps that day if I had of had them to sell.

I sold a Spartan/Baikal 22/410 combo gun a few months ago and then found a fellow on GB that had 3 of the 410/22 mag combos and of course I drug my feet and they all sold. What a great survival gun that would have been. And as far as I know no one is importing them anymore.

I know some have no use for a 22 mag but I like them. And choose the ammo with the right bullet for the situation and you have a more versatile gun than a common 22lr. The choice of a hollow point, soft point or FMJ all from the same gun puts it in a higher class than a 22lr.

If I were to choose a .22 Magnum as a survival rifle, the Chiappa Little Badger gets the nod. Buddy has one in LR and its nice to shoot. Only issue I have is the extraction of spent shells. Sometimes his doesn't like letting them go, but it's not a showstopper.

RedlegRick, haven't had any problem with the .22LR or the .22WMR extracting, however after shooting them I've cleaned them up really well, BTW I've done a lot of shooting with both rifles/shotguns. The problem I see with the "Little Badger" is that it's just a single barrel in .22LR/.22WMR I believe that in a survival situation the use of a .410 or 20ga. shotgun in the bottom barrel is of utmost importance

Ratshooter said:

Jeepnik I wish you would tell a little more about the mods to the .410 and how you made the buttstock easy to remove. I like 410 shotguns after I found out how much better they were than the internet would have you believe. The local WM had them just a couple of years ago for $219 IIRC. I should have picked one up.

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Nothing too spectacular. The barrel was shortened to just over 18". As mentioned I put a youth length buttstock on, I'm not that tall so it's not like I'm really crowding the gun. As the butt stock attaches to the receiver with a bolt you normally need a long screw driver to reach it. I picked up a second one and welded an extension to it so it was reachable from just inside the stock hollow. I attached butterfly wings to it that will turn inside the hollow. This way I can tighten and loosen it with out tools. The buttstock cap is usually screwed on. I removed the screws and using industrial strength Velcro I reattached the cap, this also lengthened the pull a bit. So now the cap comes right off and you have access to the extended bolt. Since the barrel is designed to be removed with the simple loosing the entire package breaks down into no longer than the barrel.

Assembly is as follows. Remove butt cap. Attach the buttstock to the receiver. Reattach the butt cap. Attach the barrel to the receiver. Takes a minute or so with practice. I carry a variety of shot from #7 to #4 buck and some slugs. Against two legged critters the slugs would be much more effective than the AR-7's 22 lr.

A 22 mag is my normal woods-jaunt carry, albeit in a Henry. Its given me good service in the time I've had it to the point that I prefer it to a 22 LR. More power and more reach, and plenty accurate for hunting. It holds more rounds than my Marlin bolt gun and gives faster follow up shots, too. I know you said bolt gun, but you might give the Henry a shot. Failing that, I'd go with some form of combination gun, ie Savage 24 or Chiappa Double Badger. I'd opt for the 20 gauge under WMR personally. Again, a little more shot and a little more reach.

Mac