Red Flag Law

Would you favor a Red Flag Law as described if it helped to prevent further measures ?

  • yes

    Votes: 7 14.0%
  • no

    Votes: 43 86.0%

  • Total voters
    50
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I didn't take part in the poll because the premise is wrong. No particular antigun measure will prevent further attempts at more measures. The appetite of the antigunners is insatiable. They won't be satisfied until there are no guns at all left in society.

We may be forced to accept something if we don't have the votes to stop it, but at least we need to have our eyes open. Work to mitigate the worst features, as long as we have some political clout left, but know that the antis will be back for more.
 
Even if their is due process, my issue is I can either go up against who? A DA, a prosecutor, a lawyer of some sort I’m sure... I can either go about itself or hire a lawyer?

Great!
Just what someone wants to be doing in middle of paying for a divorce, all because someone, said ex-wife maybe, made a phone call and told told some lies.


It really boils down to this for me:
Is the Government forcibly taking your guns even though you have committed NO crime an infringement?
Sounds like it to me.
 
I am in CA so I am stuck with ours which of course they are working on expanding so more people can file,
teachers, supervisors, etc.
( I have an issue with giving certain classes of people say teachers/supervisors at work, etc, powers that other people don't have)
Hmmm, so my boss can file on me but I can't file on him, something smells like Bovine excrement to me here.

I have to say no because once something like this gets started rolling downhill there is no stopping it, the snowball just gets bigger.

Think about the whole "gun control" mess in the first place.
Way back when you could have a rifle, a pistol, a canon and Gatling gun whatever you could afford.
There are probably cases but I don't seem to see that canon owners caused many problems. (not counting the Civil war)

No need for a Red Flag laws, If they think they have cause and there is a need they can throw you in jail and charge you with something.
I don't know about all states but CA has mental health laws where they can lock you up for a Psych hold.
If they do not have cause to lock you up they should not be able to take your guns, if they lock you up and can prove they have cause then they can take your guns if the law allows.

The way I read the OPs proposal they can come and take your guns then you get a hearing.
In the meantime your nice guns get marked for evidence, banged around in police storage etc.
(this may be unfair as there are some police/police departments who would take good care of them, but I wouldn't plan on it)

How about some effort to figure out why so many problem cases lately.
Just a higher number because of the population, more people who need help, something in the food or water causing it?, something in the way our children are raised?, TV, wanting to go out with a bang and make the evening news?, etc.
We need to do something about the cause.


Years ago I worked at a gas station, I was kidnapped, beaten, thrown out in a field and shot and left for dead.
All of the guys who did it had multiple past convictions for things and were not allowed to own firearms.
The law that said they could not own guns did not seem to work real well, of course I guess criminals and would be criminals don't care to much about the law....
If they just want to kill you can take their guns away and they will find another way.

And as another posted pointed out
What about other weapons, knives, bombs, fertilizer, driving large vehicles?


I can see it now in CA, " anyone who owns a XYZ or wants to is just not right in the head and we need to prevent them from owning all guns forever."
"The only reason to own a XYZ is to kill people, so if they want one they are mentally ill."
We will call this a yellow flag law, no reason to let it get to red first.
You are now on the list, good luck getting off it.

And BTW if you don't vote for our party and go to our church something is not right with you either.
On the list you go, no guns....,
Maybe a trip to the re-education camp. (ok we are not there yet, but....)

Government must have some power to perform it's functions, but I don't think giving it an ounce more than necessary is a good idea.

The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. "

All to soon it decides what is best for the people, not what they themselves decide.
Not all governments are bad/evil/corrupt but there are as many bad ones as good ones, and good ones like ours can go bad.
Usually the only way bad ones become good ones tends to involve a lot of human suffering.

And I have went on longer than I intended and am now on a list some place.....
 
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What about people making false allegations to get a gun owner's firearms removed under the Red Flag laws? Shouldn't that be a crime? Preferably a felony?

But how do can you disprove “he said in private _________ “
Looks like it’s be VERY hard to enforce, especially in those districts where the gun owner is always the bad guy.
 
Can someone red flag Johnny 20 something because he lives in his parents basement looking at porn and making weird posts on social media all day? Also he is socially awkward and was bullied during school and is pretty quiet.
 
Can someone red flag Johnny 20 something because he lives in his parents basement looking at porn and playing fantasy/alternate reality video games all day? Also he is socially awkward and was bullied during school and is pretty quiet.

no
 
But how do can you disprove “he said in private _________ “
Looks like it’s be VERY hard to enforce, especially in those districts where the gun owner is always the bad guy.

Well, how smart are your LEOs ? Do you trust them ?

They need to prove it to the 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

Years ago a person threw a knife at me. I went to the police. They said I needed 3 witnesses before they would press charges.

He tried it again, that time he tried to keep the knife and not throw it ... I didn't go to the police that time.

There was no third attempt. ... he had other concerns at that point ...

Just sayin' LEOs will not believe 'he said/she said' ... without supporting evidence
 
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I didn’t think so and I wouldn’t anyway.

If it theoretically would work though then...

I still vote no.
 
So the judge / jury deny the execution of the “red flag” provisions for whatever reason.

I want to know what penalties are incurred by the accuser.

Before I could ever support this very strong chance of someone’s due process being violated - I want it codified into law that a false accuser could go to prison for a Minimum of 5 to 10 years, plus monetary damages.

And in short order, it most likely will become prudent that none of us post on any Internet forum.
 
So the judge / jury deny the execution of the “red flag” provisions for whatever reason.

I want to know what penalties are incurred by the accuser.

Before I could ever support this very strong chance of someone’s due process being violated - I want it codified into law that a false accuser could go to prison for a Minimum of 5 to 10 years, plus monetary damages.

yes, exactly, that is the anti-swatting provision that is required :)

let's find some more improvements and get them to our political representatives BEFORE these laws get passed !!!!!!
 
No! The BOR is pretty damn clear! This isn’t minority report. There is no way to predict what someone is or isn’t going to do. This guilty before proven innocent crap is anti-American and these red flag laws are ripe for abuse. Are we really supposed to trust those that have acted above the law to apply the law to us fairly? The same groups that abused their power and have pretty much tried a coup? Really people? Wake up. You cannot legislate away evil. Period. It’s sad that we are even having this conversation and frankly I’m getting tired of having it. Take away guns and people can do much much worse with common every day household items, assuming they half ass know what they are doing. There is a reason certain chems are separated at stores.
 
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So the judge / jury deny the execution of the “red flag” provisions for whatever reason.

I want to know what penalties are incurred by the accuser.

Before I could ever support this very strong chance of someone’s due process being violated - I want it codified into law that a false accuser could go to prison for a Minimum of 5 to 10 years, plus monetary damages.

And in short order, it most likely will become prudent that none of us post on any Internet forum.

Why bother codifying it when many choose to ignore it anyways? If people followed laws on the books we would have less problems but then again laws only work if people are willing to follow them. See the entire thing hinges on the majority of people doing the right thing. If these are put in place I’d want steep penalties for any false accusers.
 
We, here in Wis. have had the protests, ongoing, because ICE was going to come in and arrest certain criminals, that were here, without proper documents. Through the reports in the local media, was the injustice of someone getting woken up, in the middle of the night, and taken, without a proper charge, against them. Tell me, is that not what the Red flag laws, that have been put in place, exactly what they say, should not be happening? You do not know your accuser and your accuser does not have to be accountable, you do not know your charge against you, you have been judged guilty, and you have not broken any law, and it is your burden, to prove otherwise. Very dangerous, for the general public, if you ask me. My vote is no, just on the states that already have this on the books.
 
We, here in Wis. have had the protests, ongoing, because ICE was going to come in and arrest certain criminals, that were here, without proper documents. Through the reports in the local media, was the injustice of someone getting woken up, in the middle of the night, and taken, without a proper charge, against them. Tell me, is that not what the Red flag laws, that have been put in place, exactly what they say, should not be happening? You do not know your accuser and your accuser does not have to be accountable, you do not know your charge against you, you have been judged guilty, and you have not broken any law, and it is your burden, to prove otherwise. Very dangerous, for the general public, if you ask me. My vote is no, just on the states that already have this on the books.

Not to mention, you’ll go broke trying to defend yourself!
 
We, here in Wis. have had the protests, ongoing, because ICE was going to come in and arrest certain criminals, that were here, without proper documents. Through the reports in the local media, was the injustice of someone getting woken up, in the middle of the night, and taken, without a proper charge, against them. Tell me, is that not what the Red flag laws, that have been put in place, exactly what they say, should not be happening? You do not know your accuser and your accuser does not have to be accountable, you do not know your charge against you, you have been judged guilty, and you have not broken any law, and it is your burden, to prove otherwise. Very dangerous, for the general public, if you ask me. My vote is no, just on the states that already have this on the books.

Well, are these illegal aliens ones that have exhausted their legal recourse or are these ICE agents just randomly locking up Hispanics ?

I say this because the ICE raids are for those that have already been adjudicated and have either not shown or have already lost in court.
 
Why bother codifying it when many choose to ignore it anyways? If people followed laws on the books we would have less problems but then again laws only work if people are willing to follow them. See the entire thing hinges on the majority of people doing the right thing. If these are put in place I’d want steep penalties for any false accusers.


Yeah, that is why I said minimum of 5-10 in prison plus monetary damages for false accusers.
 
It will be a way to silence anyone pro gun. Simple as that. Anyone pro gun gets bent out of shape over anything, they get reported.
Great way to put gun owners further in the shadows in Liberal areas of the country as well as online.

I can imagine it costing you enough money to bankrupt yourself to get your guns back. Or your collection gets beat up and devalued. Or they get lost.

I don’t see it solving any issues. It just gives anti’s another tool of attack. Criminals will get guns, anyone truly unstable will hide a gun before a hearing, or buy another after or smash a window and get one.
 
Yeah, that is why I said minimum of 5-10 in prison plus monetary damages for false accusers.

I think that is far too nice, personally!

It will be a way to silence anyone pro gun. Simple as that. Anyone pro gun gets bent out of shape over anything, they get reported.
Great way to put gun owners further in the shadows in Liberal areas of the country as well as online.

I can imagine it costing you enough money to bankrupt yourself to get your guns back. Or your collection gets beat up and devalued. Or they get lost.

I don’t see it solving any issues. It just gives anti’s another tool of attack. Criminals will get guns, anyone truly unstable will hide a gun before a hearing, or buy another after or smash a window and get one.

Exactly. Seems they are moving forward with it anyways. There will be something introduced tomorrow.
 
I think that is far too nice, personally!



Exactly. Seems they are moving forward with it anyways. There will be something introduced tomorrow.

How about instead of wringing our hands we find some improvements and get them to our legislators ?

because yes, tomorrow or after the next shooting ...
 
Just as an addendum, my ex (#2) claimed violence and I was told to voluntarily bring in my weapon (it was my pistol that was issued me in the force and I was able to buy it when I retired). At the time she didn't know about my other guns so I complied after stripping it of all the internals leaving basically a slide, barrel and grip. No springs, no firing pin etc.
When I finally won my case 2.5 years later I went to claim it and because it was stripped and useless to them it actually survived a purge. Normally they claim to have lost it. That's my $0.02 on Red Flags Laws. It's been 17 years so I forgot about it.
 
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