H110/W296 Question

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Mr_Flintstone

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It's pretty well established that H110 and W296 are now the same powder, but which powder is it? Are they both now H110 or W296? Or, are they both now something different from each original powder?
 
Check the SDS of the 3 powder. W296 has 2 SDS. One is "Reach Compliant."Looks like the USA W296 is NOT reach Compliant. Or the SDS has not been up dated?

H110 is Reach Compliant.

they both now something different from each original powder?
Yes, both original powders are now different.

I guess both because of the new Reach Compliant.

I do not see St. Marks making more then 1 powder.
 
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It has been my understanding thaat the two powders are identical except for the packaging.

Right.
But which one is the imposter?
:rofl:

Would it matter?
A handloader is testing with every new powder lot any way, right?

Lots (production runs) of powder can vary as much as ten percent. Ten percent is a long way to be over a maximum charge worked up for a different lot.:eek:
 
There was never more than one such powder. It just comes in two different brand labels as already stated above. It's IMR4227 and H4227 that were once two different powders but are now one and not the other, and IRC, it's the one that's different than the label.

I can't say that lots don't vary as much as 10%, but I'm pretty sure that most powder producers/packagers keep some of their hot batches and some of their lighter batches and they blend new batches with one or the other to maintain better consistency than 10%. So while production could vary by 10%, what you get in the bottle is most likely to be more consistent than that.
 
The W296 is not the same H110. It is the same difference as 12 large eggs or a dozen large eggs. You still get 2 eggs per day for 6 days.
 
Hodgdon has said these days that W296 is the same as H110, or vice versus.

In my opinion and I have no evidence to support this, they have always been the same. In my opinion, Hodgdon bought the excess production of W296 but by contract was not allowed to say the powder was the same as W296.

Now that Hodgdon has the marketing rights to Winchester powders, this agreement is no longer valid.

Again, I have no evidence to support this and you know what they say about "assume". Use this concept at your own peril.
 
I can't say that lots don't vary as much as 10%, but I'm pretty sure that most powder producers/packagers keep some of their hot batches and some of their lighter batches and they blend new batches with one or the other to maintain better consistency than 10%. So while production could vary by 10%, what you get in the bottle is most likely to be more consistent than that.

You may be right.
Finding out by losing a pistol, or a hand is more expensive than running a work up.

In this day it would be a sloppy company that would waste that nitroglycerin and not charge more for it.;)

For my self the worst part would be coming up ten percent short and not having a seven foot fireball of H-One Ten at the barrel.
 
The W296 is not the same H110. It is the same difference as 12 large eggs or a dozen large eggs. You still get 2 eggs per day for 6 days.
But which came first? The chicken or the egg?
In addition to that Winchester 296 MUST be better and different because it has a pretty label and costs more!

H=Hodgdon 110
W=Winchester 296

SM= Saint Marks Powder(Dynamic)
H=SM
W=SM
H=W
W=H
SM=H and W
H and W =SM
 
Well, yes.
Obviously.

But, does H*W=SM also = EGG?
H^W=SM*chicken, but the inverse derivate of EGG is not SM/chicken*(H^M)

Certainly there are higher order mathematics involved here we have not yet ascertained...

Not to mention that neither chickens nor eggs are temperature insensitive, which can raise pressure.
:):p
 
H110 is like other Hodgdon powders, it was originally military surplus from .30 carbine production. H for Hodgdon 110 for 110 grain carbine bullet.
When surplus supplies ran out or Slamfired, they purchased fresh bulk powder from Winchester/Olin. Winchester eventually caught on and started selling it as 296 for use in carbine, .410 shotshells, and magnum revolvers.
Older load data treats the two labels differently. I think because what Winchester standardized on for canister retail sale was not the same lot specification as the surplus powder Hodgdon had started out with and had purchased to keep selling. When Hodgdon acquired distribution rights to WCC powder, they did not carry on that lot number difference, they just filled all cans out of the same barrel.
 
I believe it's just marketing. Kinda like a Mazda labeled Dodge; same stuff different label. But I like the dozen egg analogy! :rofl:

But I haven't used either in over 25 years, and didn't know/care about the family history/lineage before that...
 
Clearly, H-414 is superior, newly manufactured powder. That other stuff is surplus bulk. I think some of it is even gone bad.
I used 760 once and water came out the barrel when I fired!
I think the bullet walked to the muzzle out of disgust.
:D
 
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