Misleading information and data on shootings

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What I heard is that "school shooting" is defined as any shooting within 1000 feet of a school. Including drug dealers shooting at each two blocks away at 3 AM. Have to get those numbers up when you have an agenda to push.
 
Drug War = Gangs

Tell the Dems stop smoking weed, and the number gets cut in half.

In seriousness though, end the War on Drugs.
 
My estimate is those violence figures would show a strong correlation with the poverty rate, far more than with any axis of 'liberal' or 'conservative'..

Poverty hell, it's gangs. Let's be real. It's young black males fighting over drug territory and being disrespected.
 

So the definition used in that the particular report they cite...
According to the FBI, the term “mass murder” has been defined generally as a multiple homicide
incident in which four or more victims are murdered, within one event, and in one or more
locations in close geographical proximity. Based on this definition, for the purposes of this report,
“mass shooting” is defined as a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are
murdered with firearms, within one event, and in one or more locations in close proximity.

Similarly, a “mass public shooting” is defined to mean a multiple homicide incident in which four
or more victims are murdered with firearms, within one event, in at least one or more public
locations, such as, a workplace, school, restaurant, house of worship, neighborhood, or other
public setting.

So they say that it must first be a mass murder before it is a mass shooting, but not exclusively a public mass shooting which is otherwise defined. That is how they narrowed the scope of their study.

However, the report is entitled, Mass Murder with Firearms: Incidents and Victims, 1999-2013 which indicates a narrowed focus only on those incidents with mass murders.

It is an interesting way to call things. You could go in and shoot 50 people, killing only 3, and it not be a mass shooting.

Even so, they still came up with 317 in a 15 year period, and they DID include familial mass shootings which is the most common form of mass shooting they identified and it is the one type that most everyone is LEAST worried about. Most are worried about the least common mass shooting, the public mass shooting. Pro gun groups are quick to dismiss familial mass shootings and other felony mass shootings from consideration, but this study included them.
 
It appears the media and the anti-gun factions use the most loose definition that there is of what constitutes a "mass shooting".
 
The statistic as cited and recorded by the government which gets used for political purposes with additional twists is based on any shooting in which 4 or more people are injured or killed in an incident.
Not killed, injured and/or killed.
This is a lot of gang on gang attacks, gang shoots up club, gang shoots up house party, etc

When multiple people are shooting at eachother in a crowded environment both they and bystanders can total 4 quite quickly, but these incidents generally only make the locals news and are not the ones the national media makes sure you don't miss. You do however hear about them as statistics whenever they help to give larger numbers for political or legislative reasons.

The most common killer and victim is a young african american male that is involved in the drug trade.
Blacks are only 13% of the population, black males an even smaller percent, just under half of that, and black males in the typical age bracket an even smaller percent of that. This demographic manages to commit about 50% of all homicides in the USA.
So people out of a demographic of well under 5% of the population is committing about 50% of the homicides.
Someone is embracing a bad culture. This then leads police to expect more trouble from young african american males dressing or acting like hip hop gangsters, which we then hear about.

A decent percent of the remaining homicides of other races are also gang related, emulating that same culture.
They also tend to get solved less frequently than murders in other demographics because they have a culture of not working with the police, as that is snitching. Snitches get stitches.
This of course means this is also the demographic most suitable for victimization without getting caught, which further encourages gang members to prioritize victimizing gang members.

At the same time I used to be against the drug war, now I think it gives people that would be criminals something to do and people to victimize that are not regular society.
Instead of robbing liqor stores or banks or targeting regular people doing peaceful things within society that on average have less cash than they would make dealing drugs or robbing a drug dealer, they target eachother or deal drugs. It provides an avenue for predators to pursue that probably is less harmful to innocent people than if it did not exist.
 
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Does anyone remember the murder of eight members of an extended Ohio family. Nearly everyone, including the media, claimed the murders were dope related: This was untrue. They were murdered over the custody of a child.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/us/ohio-piketon-murders-arrest/index.html

Four members of the Wagner family were eventually charged with the murders. Both grandmothers were charged with covering up the crimes.

 
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The 2000 figure for mass shootings since Sandy Hook (Dec 2012) is pretty close. There were 339 mass shootings in 2018. In 2019 there have been 261 mass shootings:

What I find interesting is the “we’ve got to do something” coverage.

Let’s look at other data since 2012.

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If my math is right that’s 246,593 not counting 2019. We are over 1/4 million right now.

I haven’t heard a single person call for a ban on cars (AOC wants to get rid of planes though), “common sense” speed limits or background checks for all automobile owners, I say they are complicit in the deaths of these innocent men, women and children...
 
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Having managed a pawn shop in Liberty City in Miami for about 5 years I evolved a theory about why kids are attracted to the bad side in poverty areas. Any honest person making any money in a poor neighborhood is probably salting every penny away to be able to move to a better neighborhood. Kids don't grasp this, really. The only people having fancy cars and jewelry in such a neighborhood is someone doing bad things. The kids want the usual things kids want and the parents are looking at their income as zero disposable dollars, it's all going into the buy a house fund.
This is, of course, not 100% of the bad kids, lots come from broken homes.
Could be off base, but those guys dealing drugs and flashing money and guns look pretty attractive to a lot of impressionable kids.
 
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What I find interesting is the “we’ve got to do something” coverage.

Yes, the "since sandy hook, we have let 2,*** mass shootings happen".
That is what really kind of irks me. Who is "we"? We didnt do anything. These were all crimes committed by individuals so why are "we" responsible.

That's what makes these stats look dicked up. While they may satisfy the current definition of mass shooting, there is definitely an attempt to mislead in the context that it is presented.
 
Yes, the "since sandy hook, we have let 2,*** mass shootings happen".
That is what really kind of irks me. Who is "we"? We didnt do anything. These were all crimes committed by individuals so why are "we" responsible.


That's what makes these stats look dicked up. While they may satisfy the current definition of mass shooting, there is definitely an attempt to mislead in the context that it is presented.


Bolded: You speak for me X2 when you point this out!!!! I'm sure you speak for many here.:thumbup:
 
As I said most homicides in the nation are committed by a small percent of the population primarily gang members, with young black males alone committing around 50% of all murders going back decades even though black males are about 6.5% of the population and ones in the age bracket doing most of the killing probably between 2-3% of the population.
How politically correct are we if we can't even question why people coming out of only 2-3% of the population commits 50% of the murders and have an honest conversation about it?
It's not all just being poor either, many rural poor places in the nation had strong gun cultures with low crime.
Hispanic gangs started to emulate the hip hop thug culture started in the African American community in some regions and are reponsible for a lot of the remainder.

So the same culture is responsbile for most violence, and while murders leave a body and so are often known, a whole lot more other violent crime never even makes the statistics when these cultures are involved because they do not report it or work with law enforcement. Most violence in America is that culture.
If you add up the gang killings its easily over half and may be over 3/4 being committed.
Yet the solution is always something that targets the mainstream population.
We are politically correct and don't talk about this in the media, except to twist the statistics for use against the mainstream population, which most of those statistics do not even apply to.
The gang demographic signs up for the lifestyle, likes the power, glamor, and quick large amounts of cash for small amounts of work.
The drug war provides an avenue for them to live this lifestyle while preying on the rest of society far less than if they didn't have drugs to make large amounts of money on or drug dealers to rob. This means the majority of the victims are people willingly signing up to a life of thuggery for high short term gain. They then live a secret lifestyle involving lots of criminal activity from fighting rivals to widespread drug use and sales which means they use violence to also promote not working with the police as even if someone dies talking will interfere with the lifestyles of many others partaking of this culture. In turn making their own murders harder to solve. But that's the game, a fun game of being a badass with money without too much work that primarily harms those choosing to join. And there is some honor in most victims being other armed men that want to be part of that lifestyle. Along the lines of a legitimate military target of war, when the military forces are all voluntary.
A deal with the devil, an outlaw gun slinger/dope peddler that hurts society and lives it up, until the deal with the devil has the devil collecting.
They are able to flag themselves as predators while preying on primarily those willing to hurt society, identifying themselves to law enforcement before a more innocent member of society is harmed quite often.
Eventually law enforcement catches up to them most of the time though, even if not for everything, and most of their victims along the way were people that chose that lifestyle rather than peaceful citizens.
That to me sounds preferable to first realizing they are predators because they were preying on more traditional criminal targets like peaceful citizens and legitimate businesses. The drug war motivates criminals to prioritize victimizing criminals and law enforcement can get on their trails without most innocent people in society being harmed most of the time.

There is still plenty of crime in all other demographics and enough murders to provide endless crime dramas. You can watch dateline and someone a lot more relatable get murdered on a regular basis. So we have plenty of other problems, but the statistics are extremely misleading and do not give the proper perspective of what is happening, while the political correctness of society refuses to talk frankly and intentionally misleads for political reasons.
 
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The vast majority of mass shootings never make national news. Mass shootings like Sandy Hook, Columbine and El Paso get extensive nationwide coverage. The vast majority of these high body count mass shootings are accomplished by young white guys. The Las Vegas mass shooter was an older white guy.
 
Yes, gang violence is a major problem in the USA, no doubt about that. Some city police forces were doing good jobs controlling gang violence until their political bosses outlawed police tactics like stop and frisk.
 
No one wants to talk about Gang violence because they don't wanna seem racist. But this is 2019.
The Truth is racist but remains the truth.

The Truth is not, and can not be racist. Just because it offends some people doesn't make it racist. It's that attitude that's gotten us to where we are.
 
That's what makes these stats look dicked up. While they may satisfy the current definition of mass shooting, there is definitely an attempt to mislead in the context that it is presented.

I think you might have missed the point of my post. What is “dicked up” is wanting to take an action on something in the name of saving lives and ignoring things that take orders of magnitude more lives every day, month, year, after year.

Think of it like, we need to make it illegal to buy a 20oz soda, but it’s perfectly legal to buy two 10oz ones at the same time. You are either a complete idiot or are paid by the people who make cups, lids and straws. I’d kind of like to think they are just corrupt but some of the stuff that comes out of their mouth makes me think they are just people that don’t think.
 
Having managed a pawn shop in Liberty City in Miami for about 5 years I evolved a theory about why kids are attracted to the bad side in poverty areas. Any honest person making any money in a poor neighborhood is probably salting every penny away to be able to move to a better neighborhood. Kids don't grasp this, really. The only people having fancy cars and jewelry in such a neighborhood is someone doing bad things. The kids want the usual things kids want and the parents are looking at their income as zero disposable dollars, it's all going into the buy a house fund.
This is, of course, not 100% of the bad kids, lots come from broken homes.
Could be off base, but those guys dealing drugs and flashing money and guns look pretty attractive to a lot of impressionable kids.
You're pretty much on with this. My mother ran the Medicaid Screening clinic at the local Health Dept for 10 years, these were her patients. We had a conversation about life in the ghetto while I was policing there. Kids all over are essentially the same, they want the toys and status symbols, but like Andy Griffith said they might not "look too hard to see if there's a hook in it." Its not surprising that many of them go chasing after these things be doing illegal things. There are some we can reach, and straighten out before something happens that ruins their lives. Too many times, its too late.

There is a lot of noise about race with this subject, but it really is misplaced. Its has MUCH more to do with how kids are, or are not raised. Race doesn't make one violent, lack of a moral compass does.
 
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I think you might have missed the point of my post.

I wasnt saying the stats you provided were "dicked up"


I was more or less speaking to the one part of your post about "we've got to do something" that seems to be a habit of the anti's which is to assign personal responsibility to others for the acts of an individual. But I agree with your post, politicians cherry pick events based on their ability to cause mass social hysteria and energize elections and obesity, car accidents, etc aren't getting people out in the streets marching with signs and such....
 
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