Why did you buy a suppressor?

pdsmith505 said:

Oh, I just kinda always wanted one, so the allure of the *verboten* NFA item was there. Plus, building one from a kit was a fun project. I also had plans for a 300blk AR to be VA whitetail legal, which lent itself to the can as well as the rifles I had in .223... so .30 cal rifle can it was!

Then I just had to have one for my pistols and .22's... if my .223 with a can sounded like a .22 without one... the .22 with a can must be awesome, right?!?

Then 41F was coming, so I figured I'd build a pistol can and another .22 can (still havn't started building).

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dogtown tom said:

Sorry, but I've yet to hear any customer say anything of the sort. In fact, I've yet to read a post on any gun forum that bears any resemblance to your theory.
And anyone who brags about owning a silencer? Get real. That's like bragging you own a single cow. If your crowd is impressed by a guy who owns a silencer, its a pretty pathetic crowd.

On the contrary, I HAVE heard many a customer say they weren't considering purchasing a silencer BECAUSE it involved jumping through hoops, fingerprints, registration, allowing the ATF to enter your home at any time,etc...........but mostly they balk at paying a $200 tax and waiting 9-11 months.

Theories need to be based on something other than feels.

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Literally 2 posts above yours.

Yes, for some people part of the allure is that they are restricted and therefor exotic. I had never seen or heard a can in person until I finished building my first one.

But, hey, you own a gun shop so you know everything, right?

Just to save my ears. I like to hunt and shoot. I already have a 40% hearing loss due to nerve damage. If I live to be as old as my dad was, I have 22 years left. I want to keep the 60% I still have for those 22 years.

Texasgrillchef said:

Well I would never use a suppressor on any carry gun. I agree that would be a PITA. Why I only use it for my home defense guns. They aren’t in a holster. But one is stuck to a biometric locking magnet mount, the other is in one of those secret compartments that are built into a specific piece of furniture...

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Ah, by the time it's too big for a holster, I tend to say just toss a stock on it. My HD gun locked hidden in the corner of the bedroom closet, is a carbine.

Texasgrillchef said:

Guess that depends on your location and local laws as well, I know personally if I knew I wouldn’t get a refund on a can, especially the nearly almost $1000 cans, and trusting the government for approval I would have never bought one. It would be one thing if I knew I had a shady past, but with muckups in the current system with misidentifying someone and identity theft, I’m not about to take a gamble with our government and the stupidity of those in it! If your able t get your customers to buy a can or any other nfa item knowing they won’t get a refund if they are denied... then I congratulate you on your sales capability.

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You wrote: "If the customer doesn’t get approved by the ATF the FFL has to refund the money on the suppressor anyways...."
No ATF regulation or Federal law requires an FFL to refund a dime. It would be wise to know what your dealers policy is on refunding NFA purchases. But that policy is his to make, not because he has to.

Remember, the FFL/SOT is storing that silencer/SBR/SBS/AOW/Machine Gun for at least eight months.....safes and inventory insurance aren't free. If the transferee is a trust, LLC or corporation and one of their Responsible Persons cannot pass the background check, then the Form 4 must be resubmitted without that person as an RP...…..and the wait begins all over again. I'm sitting on five silencers right now because the trusts that bought them have members who could not pass the background check and had to be resubmitted. It's wise to know that before you add your brother in law as an RP.

My question is this, if they don’t get approved, they paid for the can, you can’t give it to him, and legally you can’t really sell it to someone else unless you do give a refund. (Varies based on local laws of course) so what do you do with it?

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My policy allows the buyer to
-resubmit another Form 4 if the denial was due to another RP on his trust.
-if the can was from my inventory, he may get a partial refund at my discretion. Otherwise he's responsible for selling his property.
-sell the can himself, I then transfer to another FFL/SOT who transfers to the new buyer.

I don’t buy toys I can’t afford, but I also don’t like the concept of paying for something I can’t use for a year.
Luckily the shop where I bought my cans, allowed me to make a down payment, then pay the rest when I was approved. If I was denied, I would get my money back, and he would sell it to someone else. The again local law I think has some influence in that as well. They also charged a $50 fee for that capability too.

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No Texas law requires that.

I think it’s nice, but barring your local laws, if an FFL doesn’t want to offer that service (layaway/refunds) then that’s their right to do, as is a customer has the right to choose to do business with that FFL or not.

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True.

In DFW there is a lot of competition in our area. I have at least 6 gun stores within 3 miles of me, and almost 30 gun stores within 10 miles, some big box as well, such as Academy sports, Bass Pro, Cabellas, Schnells (opening soon) of which Cabellas sells suppressors, AOW, SBR’s and SBS. 12 of the 30 stores 2 of which are in 3 miles of me also sells a full line of NFA items. Some of them have lawayays, some don’t. None offer financing, other then Cabellas, Bass Pro, & Academy sports, and that’s because they have their own credit card. I talked to a guy at Cabellas, and they have a store room storing almost 600-700 suppressors that are in NFA jail! He said they had to build a special room to hold them all. They don’t offer layaway but you do get a refund if your not approved.

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Considering the pricing on silencers at Cabelas I'm surprised they sell a single one, much less having 600-700 in jail. I work from home and am sitting on 300+, that I do half the business of a retail giant like Cabelas fills me with surprise and joy.

pdsmith505 said:

Literally 2 posts above yours.

Yes, for some people part of the allure is that they are restricted and therefor exotic. I had never seen or heard a can in person until I finished building my first one.

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Literally, there is no "verboten" anything about NFA firearms. They are no more "restricted" in purchase than any other firearm under Federal law. If you can legally possess a Ruger 10/22 you can lawfully acquire a silencer or other NFA firearm. The sole difference between Title I firearms and Title II is the requirement for payment of the NFA tax and ATF NFA Branch approving transfer and issuing a tax stamp. You should know that.
That you thought a silencer verboten, restricted or exotic shows an unfamiliarity or ignorance of NFA firearms. I was there once too. Once you discover that they aren't verboten, restricted or exotic you feel a bit silly, right?

But, hey, you own a gun shop so you know everything, right?

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I didn't claim that. But thanks for the complement.

You mean like a "Don't wake the baby gun?"

Shooting a suppressed 22lr is great fun because it is quiet enough to shoot without hearing pro and still be truly hearing safe. After that I got a great deal on a 45 caliber suppressor. Then I picked up an AR carbine which was loud, so I had to get a suppressor for that, right? I got one for a hunting rifle and another just for ****s and giggles.

A good 22 can with subsonic ammo means you can shoot in your backyard and the neighbors are none the wiser, and the dogs don’t freak out. That’s worth the cost and the wait.

My 30 caliber can is just a toy but my 22 can is a serious tool of vermin eradication.

dogtown tom said:

Literally, there is no "verboten" anything about NFA firearms. They are no more "restricted" in purchase than any other firearm under Federal law. If you can legally possess a Ruger 10/22 you can lawfully acquire a silencer or other NFA firearm.

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If you don't consider a year-long wait and an extra $200 "more restricted"... sure. Expecially given the fact that the extra $200 was expressly intended to put NFA firearms outside the reach of the average individual. Might not be so much now, but it's an extra hurdle.

Beyond that, 41F wasn't so long ago, and considering this is a question about why you bought a can in the first place... for many people, even though NFA items might have been legal, they were effectively outside the realm of possibility because of CLEO's who wouldn't sign. Lots of people (myself included) went through the process of forming a separate legal entity to own NFA items. Never heard of someone having to do that to obtain a 10/22.

The sole difference between Title I firearms and Title II is the requirement for payment of the NFA tax and ATF NFA Branch approving transfer and issuing a tax stamp. You should know that.
That you thought a silencer verboten, restricted or exotic shows an unfamiliarity or ignorance of NFA firearms. I was there once too. Once you discover that they aren't verboten, restricted or exotic you feel a bit silly, right?

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Again, considering this is a question about buying a can in the first instance, why throw shade for honest answers? You're right, after the first go around, it's not nearly so exotic. But the first time around? Especially if you have to go through even more hurdles than just the tax and the wait... nothing ignorant about that.

I didn't claim that. But thanks for the complement.

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But you certainly implied it real hard.

dogtown tom said:

Sorry, but I've yet to hear any customer say anything of the sort.

...

Theories need to be based on something other than feels.

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Otherwise read as "I didn't see it in my little business, so it must not be real!"

pdsmith505 said:

If you don't consider a year-long wait and an extra $200 "more restricted"... sure.

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I don't.
The year long wait is a direct result of the volume of Form 4 applications and the ensuing data entry backlog.
The $200 is a tax.....payable by anyone.

Expecially given the fact that the extra $200 was expressly intended to put NFA firearms outside the reach of the average individual. Might not be so much now, but it's an extra hurdle.

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Uh, yeah. Everyone knows that. It was news in 1934. The news this century is that $200 tax is no longer a prohibitive factor.
And an "extra hurdle"? No. If the tax was paid by the manufacturer and passed on to the end buyer you wouldn't hear a peep about it.

Beyond that, 41F wasn't so long ago, and considering this is a question about why you bought a can in the first place... for many people, even though NFA items might have been legal, they were effectively outside the realm of possibility because of CLEO's who wouldn't sign. Lots of people (myself included) went through the process of forming a separate legal entity to own NFA items.

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Oh good grief. You never knew your "realm of possibility" before 41F meant apply for the tax stamp as a trust/LLC/Corp? ……..'cause that didn't require a CLEO signature. It was pretty common knowledge for decades that CLEO signature wasn't needed for trust...….therefore IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILTY.

Never heard of someone having to do that to obtain a 10/22.

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You need to read more. There are states that require permission slips before purchasing a firearm.

Again, considering this is a question about buying a can in the first instance, why throw shade for honest answers? You're right, after the first go around, it's not nearly so exotic. But the first time around? Especially if you have to go through even more hurdles than just the tax and the wait... nothing ignorant about that.

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Ignorant doesn't mean stupid. It just means you didn't know.

But you certainly implied it real hard.

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Horsehockey. While I do think I have breadth of experience that nonlicensees don't have, it doesn't mean I know "everything". And I AM SMART ENOUGH to not make such a stupid claim.

After you run 600-700 NFA transfers get back to me. You'll be more knowledgeable than you are now.

Otherwise read as "I didn't see it in my little business, so it must not be real!"

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Wait...you're the one with a sample size of …….one. "My little business" will see 2,000 Title I firearms and 150-200 NFA firearms this year. That means I'll see hundreds and hundreds of real live people each and every year....and have for the last eleven years. Most of whom are happy to tell me why they bought a particular firearm or why they are looking to buy a silencer.

I promise you'll be the first to know when someone tells me "I wants a silencer because REGULATED AND VERBOTEN!"