Looking for a Schofield and need advice

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jpy15026

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Looking to buy a used Schofield,Any one have any preferences,Cimmeron,Taylors,Navy Arms,?
5 in 71/2 in ?
Thanks in advance
 
They are all made by Uberti, so buy whichever importer/distributor's used pistol offers the best value for money (Dixie imported at one time as well). I have a pair of 45LC in 7.5" for CAS. Other than the cocking issue (unlike a SAA, pressure on the trigger during cocking will interrupt cocking) which is simply a matter of practice, I find them accurate, well designed for recoil (like the SAA, they are designed for a moderate grip to allow the recoil to roll them back into the hand), and a joy to shoot. Cleaning when used with black powder is a little bit more tedious than a SAA, but no deterrent. Unless you plan to use this pistol for concealed carry (in which case, "you're a better man than me, Gunga-din"), the 7.5" offers a few more FPS, and a slightly better feel (in my opinion) than the shorter barrels. If you get one with any case coloring left on accents, coat them with case color lacquer to maintain.
 
There are reports that the "early" Ubertis (1980 - 1990 ) imported by Navy Arms had "issues"
“ blew hot gas in my face when three of the six cylinders were fired.”
“turn line is very deep and irregular”.
"Beautiful deep bluing" began to rub off.”
“The front of the cylinder is rubbed and scored after only a few rounds”
I don't think I'll shoot it much,just have the itch to add it to my collection.
I'd really like to find one for sale for a reasonable price.
 
Couple of stoeger schofields on gunbroker right now.
 
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I have two Uberti's in .45LC and two in 44-40. 5" and 7" in both calibers. I prefer the 7", but I tend to like longer barrelled revolvers. I think they also made other calibers. .38 Spl springs to mind, maybe others. They have been reliable although I don't shoot them much. One item to watch for is the opening method. One type allows you to push down the opener (for want of a better word) to open the action. The other makes you lift the opener to open. Not a big issue, since I probably won't be in any gunfights in the foreseeable future, but the push down is easier.
 
There are reports that the "early" Ubertis (1980 - 1990 ) imported by Navy Arms had "issues"

Howdy

Those were probably the ones made by ASM, not Uberti. The ASM Schofields had a lot of problems.

One item to watch for is the opening method. One type allows you to push down the opener (for want of a better word) to open the action. The other makes you lift the opener to open. Not a big issue, since I probably won't be in any gunfights in the foreseeable future, but the push down is easier.

I suspect you are talking about the barrel latch when you talk mention the 'opener'.

There was only one type of latch on the Schofield Model. Actually, the latch on the 1st and 2nd Model Schofields were slightly different in appearance, but they worked the same.

The latch was a serpentine shaped piece mounted on the frame.

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The hammer was pulled back slightly to the 'half cock' position, and then the latch could be rotated back about 1/4" to free the barrel to rotate down.

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All the other large frame #3 Top Break S&W revolvers, the American Model, the Russian Model, the New Model Number Three, and the 44 Double Action had a latch that was lifted up to unlatch the barrel. When the latch was lifted up it cleared two posts machined onto the frame. This allowed the barrel to be rotated down for loading and unloading.

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The lifting style of latch was the first latch S&W put on their big #3 Top Breaks. It was used on the American Model and the Russian Model. The problem with this style of latch is it requires two hands to operate, one to lift the latch and the other to rotate the barrel down. Major George Schofield was impressed with the American Model, but he thought he could improve it. He had a new latch fashioned that allowed a mounted soldier to open the latch with the thumb of the hand holding the revolver, and the barrel could be opened by brushing it against his leg, freeing his other hand to hold onto the reins of his horse. Schofield patented his new latch, and S&W had to pay him a royalty on every Schofield model they produced. Crafty old Daniel Wesson instructed his designers to come up with a new latch to get around Schofield's patent, but the model was only produced from 1875 until 1877 with only about 9,000 produced.

After that S&W went back to the lifting style latch for the New Model Number Three and the 44 Double Action model.

Just as a refresher, S&W built five distinct models on the large #3 size frame.

The first was the American Model. Actually, this is a 1st Model Russian, but they looked just like the American Model, the difference was the American Model was chambered for the 44 S&W round with a heeled bullet, the 1st Model Russian was chambered for the 44 Russian round.

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Then came the Russian Model with its distinctive hump on the grip and spur on the trigger guard.

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Then came the Schofield Model, with its distinctive style of barrel latch.

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Then came the best of them all, the New Model Number Three.

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And finally came the 44 Double Action.

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All built on the #3 size frame, but all different.
 

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Uberti decided to chamber the Schofield reproduction in .45 LC instead of .45 Schofield. That means that the cylinder is longer than the originals, and the space in front of the cylinder is correspondingly shorter. This leads to fouling problems when shooting black powder. Smokeless "cowboy" loads should be OK. Driftwood can comment on this better than I can.
 
Driftwood can comment on this better than I can.

You pretty much answered it. When Uberti chambered the Schofield model, and all their other replica S&W Top Breaks for a longer cartridge than the 45 Schofield or 44 Russian, the cylinders needed to be lengthened to accommodate the longer cartridges. But in doing so they did not lengthen the frame a corresponding amount. Instead they shortened the bushing at the front of the cylinder so the new longer cylinder could fit into a frame of the same size. The bushing on the front of the cylinder serves to shield the underlying cylinder arbor from Black Powder fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap. The shorter bushing was not able to adequately shield the arbor from Black Powder fouling, and the cylinder tends to bind up quickly from fouling deposited on the cylinder arbor.

This is the cylinder from an original 1st Model Schofield. The bushing is the piece pressed into the front of the cylinder. It stands about .165 proud of the front face of the cylinder.

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The part with the spring is the ejector rod. When the cylinder is mounted in the gun, the ejector rod sits inside the cylinder arbor and the bushing sits outside the arbor.

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When assembled, the front of the bushing is displaced about .165 horizontally from the rear of the barrel. Hot gas and fouling blasted out of the cylinder gap of any revolver blasts out basically in a plane. So the bushing at the front of the cylinder shields the arbor from getting Black Powder fouling deposited on it. Contrary to popular belief, it is fouling blasted onto the arbor that tends to bind up a revolver fired with Black Powder, not build up of fouling on the front face of the cylinder.

I used to have a photo showing the arrangement of the bushing on an Uberti Schofield, but I can't find it right now. Suffice it to say the shorter bushing on the front of the Uberti cylinder does not provide enough horizontal displacement from the end of the barrel to adequately prevent Black Powder fouling from building up on the cylinder arbor.
 
The theory may well be that the Schofield has binding problems shooting black powder. I shoot a pair in CAS and that is not the case. They do foul more than my R&S conversions and may foul more than Colts, but this binding problem seems to be one of internet lore rather than reality in practice.

Again, before anyone argues the point, I shoot them with BP loads in competition. There is no binding problem.
 
OK

Do you have to stop and clean your Schofields during the course of the day to prevent them from binding up, or can you shoot an entire CAS match without cleaning them?

I shot a six stage match with my New Model Number Threes on Sunday. I have used them on eight stage matches, and also on two day matches with ten stages. Without cleaning them in between. With the original S&W design, they can keep shooting all day long without needing any attention.

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So, I can’t recall the last time I shot eight stages and don’t know whether I will have used the Schofields or not - too hot in the summer for even five stages some months.?I did recently shoot at a two day event and cleaned them after the first day. Don’t know that they would have managed two days without at least a good spray of Ballistol.

In a five-six stage event, no cleaning is required between stages. Admittedly, I use Big Lube bullets AND a dollop of lube under the bullet. I also coat the arbor pin with lube before matches.

I am not disputing the design flaw that you explained well and I do not doubt that it leads to binding earlier than other single action designs with BP loads. I recognize that you did not suggest that the Uberti Schofields bind up at the first whiff of powder. There is a tendency in the community to exaggerate the impact of the bushing design and I am simply pointing out that in normal competition use, it isn’t a problem.

And those No. 3s of yours are gorgeous!
 
I have a Schofield in 45 Colt. It gets bound up pretty quick with smokeless.

I have been really considering trying again with a New Model 3 in 38 special.

It is my opinion that while the Schofield latch is easier to operate one handed, the New Model No 3 latch is superior.
 
In a five-six stage event, no cleaning is required between stages. Admittedly, I use Big Lube bullets AND a dollop of lube under the bullet. I also coat the arbor pin with lube before matches.

I too use Big Lube bullets in all my Black Powder cartridges. They are a good part of why my guns keep rolling all day long. However I stopped putting any lube under the bullet a long time ago. Not necessary with my revolvers or rifles, and it just means more steps and extra work loading the ammo. I found that if I put a 'lube cookie' of beeswax under the bullet, when I fired them the cookie got pressed onto the bottom of the bullet and they flew like lopsided darts. Maybe not a problem at close range with a revolver, but definitively a problem with a 44-40 rifle. So then I started putting a card wad between the bullet and the lube cookie, to keep the cookie from getting 'glued' to the bullet, plus a wad under the cookie to keep it from adulterating the powder.

Way too much work!

After I found Big Lube bullets I never put in any extra lube again. So much easier. Drop the powder in, seat the bullet so it compresses the powder about 1/16", and crimp.
 
Depends on what you mean by "modern." The guns are proof tested to CIP standards, not much different from SAAMI. So they are built for "Tier 1" smokeless loads but not for "Tier 2" at .45 ACP pressure and certainly not for "Tier 3" loads "Ruger only."
 
Depends on what you mean by "modern." The guns are proof tested to CIP standards, not much different from SAAMI. So they are built for "Tier 1" smokeless loads but not for "Tier 2" at .45 ACP pressure and certainly not for "Tier 3" loads "Ruger only."

Thanks, that's what I needed to know. Wouldn't be looking to load up anything above standard pressure 45 Colt loads.
 
Any negatives on the Stoegers?

Howdy

The Schofield reproductions marketed by Stoeger, Cimarron, Taylors and some other importers are all made in Italy by Uberti.

As stated, they are proofed in government proof houses to slightly stricter standards than our SAAMI standards.

They are all safe to shoot with standard off the shelf Smokeless loads.

But keep the high powered stuff away from them.
 
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