Why Hornady Stopped Selling to Walmart

when did this happen? I heard nothing of it and could find nothing about it online.

Charlie Horse said:

He passed away.

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In what universe?

Sorry about that then, looks like I had the wrong Ronnie Barrett. Just looked it up. Glad to see I am wrong.

The Evangelist Cowboy said:

I have been to two stores in my area. All 9mm is gone except for defensive ammo, .38, .40 cal, .45 ACP are in short supply it's already hitting at least in my area. If they were legally binded to sell them ammo I would see if I could get out of that contract since they are no longer selling the best selling pistol and rifle ammo. I also highly doubt there is a contract more than an order

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The post below was from another forum I'm on.
Bill
Last night I decided to stop in my local MaoMart to check out the ammo situation. It was late and this location is well known for being slightly rough around the edges, even by WalMart standards.
The gun counter was unstaffed and deserted. I peeked over the counter behind the glass and spied something I'd never seen before. 9mm 115gr 500 round bulk Winchester White Box. I have always bought their 100rd stuff. It was priced at $74.95 a box (seemed like a good price) so I called someone to sell me some. It took forever but finally the manager, a very nice middle aged woman came and unlocked the case. There were six boxes so I bought four (2K rounds) and left the other two for some gun show neckbeard to buy for resale.
The manager told me that it would be awhile before they quit selling it as she had heard that there were still large contracts that had to be honored. She added that in her opinion it was a stupid policy and would do nothing to stop mass shootings but she was a nobody and corporate could give a **** what the employees thought. I thanked her and went out of my way to be polite even though I had to wait ten minutes to be waited on.
As far as "boycotts", I gave up on that noble thought years ago. If I have a choice I'll avoid shopping at anti gun businesses, but bottom line, I won't take a hit financially or be inconvenienced. If I was on the other side, the LAST thing I'd like to hear is that someone like me was not only still shopping at WalMart, but getting a good deal on ammo. If I knew someone was paying extra or being inconvenienced, I'd feel a smug satisfaction that I'd pulled off a control move.

BCR#1 said:

The gun counter was unstaffed and deserted.

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This is why I have always gone to Ace hardware, Academy sports and outdoors, Cabelas, and local dealers and gun shops for my guns and ammo. All of them have had competitive pricing or better selection than wal-mart. I won't be patronizing wal-mart even for groceries anymore thanks to their new ammo policy. I love voting with dollar bills.

Already had reasons for liking Hornady. Maybe I will use XTPs for when I start loading for pistols.

BCR#1 said:

The post below was from another forum I'm on.
Bill
Last night I decided to stop in my local MaoMart to check out the ammo situation. It was late and this location is well known for being slightly rough around the edges, even by WalMart standards.
The gun counter was unstaffed and deserted. I peeked over the counter behind the glass and spied something I'd never seen before. 9mm 115gr 500 round bulk Winchester White Box. I have always bought their 100rd stuff. It was priced at $74.95 a box (seemed like a good price) so I called someone to sell me some. It took forever but finally the manager, a very nice middle aged woman came and unlocked the case. There were six boxes so I bought four (2K rounds) and left the other two for some gun show neckbeard to buy for resale.
The manager told me that it would be awhile before they quit selling it as she had heard that there were still large contracts that had to be honored. She added that in her opinion it was a stupid policy and would do nothing to stop mass shootings but she was a nobody and corporate could give a **** what the employees thought. I thanked her and went out of my way to be polite even though I had to wait ten minutes to be waited on.
As far as "boycotts", I gave up on that noble thought years ago. If I have a choice I'll avoid shopping at anti gun businesses, but bottom line, I won't take a hit financially or be inconvenienced. If I was on the other side, the LAST thing I'd like to hear is that someone like me was not only still shopping at WalMart, but getting a good deal on ammo. If I knew someone was paying extra or being inconvenienced, I'd feel a smug satisfaction that I'd pulled off a control move.

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Of course it will be phased. That is not the point the point is that they are running out of stock already and now prices are affected (from what I've seen) at other businesses. That's what happens when one vendor controls a fifth of the market place

Eddietruett said:

One of the companies I worked for years ago really went after Walmart's business. We won a regional contract to supply products. We had to hire more people and invest a lot of money to increase our inventory to meet the short delivery dates that Walmart expects. They want vendors to stock material, so they don't have to and its smart business. My company knew it was a contract with a end date, and it was a hard decision to hire more people and gear up for the increased volume with no guarantee after the contract expired, but it was "implied" that if we did our job correct and serviced them as was expected that we would have first refusal when it came time to renew. When that day came, we were offered a new contract but at a reduced price of a few percent which on the huge volume they bought was a lot of money and we were operating at a very low margin as it was. Our management bail on them and never looked back. Thankfully we had grown in other areas and didn't have to get rid of any of the new employees we had hired but the bottom line it felt like a set up. They give you a lot of volume, let you get the business plan operating and then put the screws to you so they can make a few extra percent profit. Up until I got personally got involved in that big deal, I never realized just how much 1 or 2% can affect a business but to a company that does the millions of dollars in sales a day such as Walmart, a percent is huge. But they are ruthless to deal with. I say bully to Hornady. I've always liked their ammo and reloading supplies and will support them even more after reading the interview.

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Yep, Walmart was built on the backs of their suppliers and it broke many of them (Murray Mowers for example). The basic deal is that they get the product, sell it, hold onto the cash received for the sale for 90-120 days to make money of the initial sale plus interest in the corporate paper market before paying. My friend worked in management at a supplier of picture frames and Walmart acted in their case just as you described. Then, when the China taps opened on trade, promptly dropped the rural company my friend worked at for cheap Chinese made picture frames.

My father sold to them once and it was enough and that was in the early days when they were just getting started into groceries. They were unpleasant to deal with as a supplier then and from what I hear have not improved over the years. Only the really big brands have any clout with them such as Coke, Procter and Gambill, etc.

boom boom said:

My father sold to them once and it was enough and that was in the early days when they were just getting started into groceries. They were unpleasant to deal with as a supplier then and from what I hear have not improved over the years. Only the really big brands have any clout with them such as Coke, Procter and Gambill, etc.

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Very true, and even some of them are fed up. I have friend that's been an AFLAC agent for 17 years. They used to have their business, lost it and were in negotiations to get it back. When Walmart demanded that none of their employees would wait on hold more than 10 seconds, AFLAC walked away from the business and suggested they stay with their current provider.

BCR#1 said:

The gun counter was unstaffed and deserted.

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If I tallied up all the time I've spent ringing the service bell at sporting goods I dont even want to know how many hours I spent waiting. Even after hailing some random employee to call up someone with the keys to the ammo counter. I always hated that.

I highly doubt that Hornady stopped doing business with Walmart because they didn't feel that Walmart supported the industry. More than likely, they stopped doing direct sales to Walmart because Walmart played hardball in their negotiations, which is a trait of Walmart's. Walmart (more than likely) wanted X amount of product on demand or at Y intervals for Z (low low low) price. Hornady would make money, but the margins would be extremely close. However, that would result in Walmart undercutting Hornady's other vendors and resulting in less sales to those vendors from whom Hornady made more profit per unit. In the end, it just wasn't a good deal for Hornady. It would result in them living or dying by Walmart, something Hornady mentioned he had knowledge about and didn't like. It all comes down to money, which is why Hornady is coming forward not to try to claim some of the business being thrown off by Walmart, capitalizing on the negative publicity.

Double Naught Spy said:

I highly doubt that Hornady stopped doing business with Walmart because they didn't feel that Walmart supported the industry. More than likely, they stopped doing direct sales to Walmart because Walmart played hardball in their negotiations, which is a trait of Walmart's. Walmart (more than likely) wanted X amount of product on demand or at Y intervals for Z (low low low) price. Hornady would make money, but the margins would be extremely close. However, that would result in Walmart undercutting Hornady's other vendors and resulting in less sales to those vendors from whom Hornady made more profit per unit. In the end, it just wasn't a good deal for Hornady. It would result in them living or dying by Walmart, something Hornady mentioned he had knowledge about and didn't like. It all comes down to money, which is why Hornady is coming forward not to try to claim some of the business being thrown off by Walmart, capitalizing on the negative publicity.

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I am pretty sure that Walmart does not really give a hoot about whether or not the supplier can make money at what Walmart wants the supplier to sell. That is what the supplier should worry about; Walmart just cares about what price and benefits a seller can give them. When Sam was alive, things were a bit different but since then Walmart is primarily concerned with maximizing shareholder equity. Usually they already have competitors prices in hand when negotiating.

In fairness to the Hornady article, Walmart also has not in the recent era supported trade groups or industry groups in the industry and instead has joined forces with Bloomberg's anti-gun coalition some years back. A few years ago, WalMart tried to get rid of firearms and ammunition at a number of stores (not all stores sell it) but had to backtrack when they found it was costing them additional sales in other departments. Same thing as layaway being restored during the economic crunch.

Walmart is trying to expand in inner suburbia and urban areas to get sales growth it needs so I suspect that they are willing to abandon their rural roots to do so in order to placate the sensibilities of blue model city governments. Not much sales growth left in rural areas for them because of urbanization population patterns. BTW, because of where I originally lived, I have more or less observed and shopped at Walmarts from the early 1970's as the company grew. Ironically I would then see a new Walmart Super Center pop up for awhile within 1-2 miles of wherever my wife and I moved which was pretty frequent in those days and we joked about them tracking us. I had quite a few friends that worked for Walmart as store managers or in the new Sams Club and pretty much heard their stories about employment and sales in the company.

Professional managers at the store have more or less decided on the grow or die model which has driven WalMart's policy for awhile but obviously a larger and larger company is more and more likely to be less entrepreneurial and more likely to move with the herd on issues. Like most centralized systems, it has its advantages and disadvantages but a slip up by a CEO will have an effect on it. The CEO has more or less chosen a side in the 2A battle and it is not on the side of the 2A. Do not expect them to backtrack unless the CEO and current upper management is canned due to poor performance in same store sales growth over time.

Over time, I would imagine that Walmart vacates the ammunition and firearm market entirely because cutting its sales will by its very nature lead to less and less reliance on this department just as Sears cut firearms adrift in the 1970's. I see one beneficiary to this move and that is Academy but have little knowledge of the inner workings of that company other than it appears centered on relatively friendly states on firearm policy.

boom boom, I don't disagree, but I highly doubt Hornady stopped selling to Walmart purely on ethical industry support reasons. I think if that were the case, we would have heard a lot more about it in the last 12 years. In 2007, Walmart was still happily selling plenty of ammunition and rifles, no problem and we were all happy with Walmart based on the threads posted on THR.

You are absolutely right. Walmart doesn't give one iota about its individual vendors. Walmart is in the business to make money and they do a very good job of it.

Double Naught Spy said:

boom boom, I don't disagree, but I highly doubt Hornady stopped selling to Walmart purely on ethical industry support reasons. I think if that were the case, we would have heard a lot more about it in the last 12 years. In 2007, Walmart was still happily selling plenty of ammunition and rifles, no problem and we were all happy with Walmart based on the threads posted on THR.

You are absolutely right. Walmart doesn't give one iota about its individual vendors. Walmart is in the business to make money and they do a very good job of it.

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Personally, I would argue that corporate mgmt does not care that much about individual customers or their communities either as the general service from them has been lacking.

Since 2007, Walmart is making a major try to get into urban markets such as Washington DC etc. as there is little sales growth left from their existing market--same store sales growth was 2.8 percent the last that I saw and they are under pressure from Amazon, Kroger, etc. Walmart joined Bloomberg's group Mayor's group in 2008 for a reason and it was not altruism or ethics either. Given Bloomberg's predominance in business news, I suspect WalMart wanted favorable coverage as well as currying favor with the billionaire celebrity mayor. http://everytown.org/documents/2015/07/maig_rfrp_release.pdf/ (the actual press release is from 2008 from the everytown predecessor organization that had felons, pedophiles, sexual harrassers, and other such stellar mayors as published supporters). This group also engage in illegal activities under federal law by soliciting straw buyer sting operations without the status of law enforcement and some of Bloomberg's policies in New York as mayor resulted in wholesale violations of 4th Amendment rights of individuals.

Getting into bed with someone like that indicates that either Walmart is indifferent to constitutional values or even hostile to some of them. Given their overseas operations and some of the scandals involved there (Brazil, India, China for example), I am not that surprised which ironically is reported here via bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...se-to-resolving-bribery-probe-for-300-million

People went to Walmart during the Obama years because many of the other shops were denuded of stock from panic buying and WalMart had iron clad contracts that guaranteed supply because of their size. They also did not raise prices which was a mixed blessing as the gunshow commandoes often were lying in wait for the ammo to show up when the trucks were unloaded to buy for resale.

Now they have picked a side and it is not the 2A. This is not surprising as they never supported the 2a organizations in deeds or money anyway but it is nice that they have now made it explicit. I have no beef with Hornady's press release as they have supported the 2a in money and deed and the fact that they decided not to do business with WalMart confirms that Hornady won't be dropping short barrel rifle ammo or handgun ammo from their production anytime soon to curry favor with anti 2A governments.

I have a Supercenter that got some of my money from time to time via convenience--they will see me now only when I have to go there which is seldom and they have lost any chance of online business with me. It is not the banning of open carry that I dislike, it is WalMart going like Dicks into actively promoting attacking my constitutional rights that gets me. Never been in Dicks since they screwed Troy Industries and I don't care how good Dick's price is on ammo or goods. I am beginning to feel that way toward Walmart as well. Occasionally, I might have to shop in a Walmart but most of the stuff they sell I can get better quality and as cheap from other sources. A lot of them do not require me to get into the car at all. And if I do shop there, it will be the low margin grocery stuff where they do not make much profit--where the margins are higher, medical, pet, electronics, sporting goods, hardware, softlines, automotive, gardening, not a penny which coincidentally used to constitute about 40-50 percent.

The dirty secret is that Walmart would probably go under if you only bought groceries there as the margins are just not there--they sell them so that they can sell you stuff with higher margins in other departments.

I am happy to say that I have never bought one bullet or shell from Walmart in my entire life. Whether they support vendors or not is not my main reason. The fact that they have put so many people out of work and so many local stores that offered "true service" like the local hardware store, etc. is my main hate of Walmart. I reload 95% of my ammo, but the little I buy like .22 LR I get from my LGS. I know I pay a little more, but my LGS store gives me service and I don't have to ring a damn bell if I want some bullets!!!

boom boom said:

Never been in Dicks since they screwed Troy Industries and I don't care how good Dick's price is on ammo or goods.

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I don't believe Dicks ever had reasonably priced products. Not just ammo and guns but everything seemed to be ungodly expensive....at least in my area. But, even if they had great deals and good selection, I would not shop there because 3 out of 3 times I went in there I left feeling like I had just done someone a favor by not roundhouse kicking them. Customer service has gone in the toilet it seems in alot of places. I don't really know what the community opinion of Gander Mountain is here but I went into one down South carolina and the staff was very helpful and well trained.

fireside44 said:

This is why I have always gone to Ace hardware, Academy sports and outdoors, Cabelas, and local dealers and gun shops for my guns and ammo. All of them have had competitive pricing or better selection than wal-mart. I won't be patronizing wal-mart even for groceries anymore thanks to their new ammo policy. I love voting with dollar bills.

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See now thats the thing, a pretty short drive from me in NH is a wal mart, a gun shop and a Runnings. The gun shop and Runnings don't even come close to WM prices. I would love to support the Gun Shop but he wants like .65 cents a round for plain jane 55gr .223 ball ammo. I can (could) get it from WM for .28 cents a round. Its unfortunately a no brainer. I was also pretty surprised to see a big chain store like Runnings not really doing much better. $459 for a 1000 round case of Federal .223

At this point my ammo buying will be limited to online retailers because everywhere else is a ripoff of great magnitude....

WalMart is angling to be THE state store once the fascists take over, same goes with the other 145 CEOs that signed on with Bloomberg.

BCR#1 said:

As far as "boycotts", I gave up on that noble thought years ago. If I have a choice I'll avoid shopping at anti gun businesses, but bottom line, I won't take a hit financially or be inconvenienced. If I was on the other side, the LAST thing I'd like to hear is that someone like me was not only still shopping at WalMart, but getting a good deal on ammo. If I knew someone was paying extra or being inconvenienced, I'd feel a smug satisfaction that I'd pulled off a control move.

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And this is exactly why America is finished. We have become lazy, selfish, and smug. Many people here won't even change their shopping habits to take a stand for the Constitution. Pathetic and sad.

Outlaw75 said:

Jason Hornady doesn't say that he stopped for ethical reasons, he says that he had worked in another business that sold to Walmart and didn't like they way they treated their suppliers. He says that Walmart's lack of support for the firearms industry is part of the reason he doesn't sell to Walmart, not all of the reason.

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And that makes it sound like he is primarily industry focused, which I am sure he is when it comes to how much money Hornady makes.

boom boom said:

...The dirty secret is that Walmart would probably go under if you only bought groceries there as the margins are just not there--they sell them so that they can sell you stuff with higher margins in other departments.

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I think if they only sold groceries, they would have to increase their prices. That would eliminate any reason to go to their stores for many. I buy most of my groceries at WM. Neighborhood Markets are popular here as well. Prices are exactly the same as regular WM supercenters. WM purchased some older stores that were previously chain type grocery stores that either moved out of the area or went out of business. They pretty much just sell mostly stuff that you see in modern grocery stores these days. I suspect they are doing fine. This increases their store density quite a bit.

Added: When WM came up with the Neighborhood Markets concept, I assumed they would be sort of like Dollar General. They are not at all. But I did drive past a large Dollar General store that based on the size must carry a lot of grocery items as compared to their regular stores. Dollar General was who they targeted to compete with I was told...

Walmart wants to be the only "brick and mortar" retailer. Some smaller outfits like Aldi and such might survive if they can source inventory.
Stop relating the current Walmart to Sam Walton. When he ran the outfit " Made in America" was his slogan. They would never survive in this "West China" economy. Joe

Walmart will RUTHLESSLY drive their suppliers out of profit. I worked for a company that provided one SKU (item) to Walmart and we made less that 20 percent the normal profit for that item, and we did not get the volume to make up for it. Our parent company thought it would be a good deal to be a walmart supplier for a commodity item and did not realize they are slow to pay, reject anything they can and demand ever lower prices to the poi t of no profit for the supplier. I only shop there for select items that I can't get anywhere else.