Lee Load data

Yes it's acceptable, and with the exception of data from bullet makers like Hornady and Sierra and the like, it's not super common for data to be brand specific regarding the PROJECTILE. Of course it is all brand specific regarding the POWDER. With popular projectiles like gold dot or XTP or berrys plated, some powder makers will provide data for specific brands and types of bullets, but it's usually just bullet weight and type.

It's always a good idea to have a few sources of data handy and compare them.

Lee's book actually collates data from multiple other published sources. It's nice to have, and Lyman is also a good one. And then all the powder mfgs publish data online.

Agreed on comparing from various sources.

For the most part the bullet brand is not important. Bullet weight and composition is important. Use data for cast bullets when loading a cast bullet and data for a jacketed bullet when loading a FMJ or JHP bullet.

Don't worry about using the exact OAL in the data either. Bullets meant for revolver ammo will have a crimp groove, load to the manufacturer provided crimp point. For semi-autos use your barrel to establish the bullet depth. Every gun/barrel is different.

Hope that helps some, welcome to the forum.

Edit because my tablet changed the word "cast" to "fast" for some unknown reason!

When I started reloading, about 30 years ago, all I had was a Lee die set, a Lee Hand Press, and a pound of powder. I used the data sheet that came with the dies.

That, and the ability to read and follow instructions, was all I needed for the first few years of reloading.

Use the correct powder, use the correct scoop, and pay attention to what you are doing. You'll be fine.

Have fun !

Go to the powder maker websites for up-to-date load data

As others mentioned, not super critical. Reread ArchAngleCD's post. If you continue to reload I would highly suggest better manuals. Lyman 50th is one of the most popular manuals for "all around" loading and if you choose to use jacketed bullets get a manual published by the bullet's manufacturer.

I'm a big fan of Lee stuff. I used a Lee Classic Turret as my only press for many, many years. My Dillon 650XL mostly has Lee dies on it. I prefer my Lee Auto Drum powder measures to the Dillon one, too. I do most of my case trimming with a Lee trimmer. I am very pro-Lee.

And I pay zero attention to their load data. They just copy-and-paste from other sources. The volumetric/CC's they list for a given weight have never, not once, come close to lining up for me (usually the listed volumetric charge won't come close to the predicted weight).

Get 2-3 good manuals, and have an internet connection to the powder maker's online data. Check that stuff, not the little folding Lee data.

Alan W said:

I am new to reloading and have read a few reloading manuals and manufacturers websites for load data. I received a set of Lee dies for .30-.30 and I noticed the instructions include load data. This Lee load data is not brand specific on the bullets. Is that acceptable? From reading reloading manuals I had assumed load data would be brand specific.

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The most important thing is that you start with minimum load, or close to it, and work your way up if you want more velocity.

ATLDave said:

And I pay zero attention to their load data. They just copy-and-paste from other sources. The volumetric/CC's they list for a given weight have never, not once, come close to lining up for me (usually the listed volumetric charge won't come close to the predicted weight).

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VMD is a very clever idea, but you need to determine a specific one for each container to take full advantage of the concept.

You will often get lighter than listed charges when using the auto disk. This is by design. Density of a given powder can vary up to 16%. The values on the tables are at the high end of density for that powder, which is the low end of VMD. If someone is foolish enough to load without a scale, the actual load may be less than the target load, but never greater. If you want to get very close on your first try you should calculate the VMD for each container of powder.

Take a dipper or other known volume of a powder and weigh it. Now divide the cc by the grains. That’s your VMD in cc/gr for that batch of powder. An example…

2cc/15gr = 0.1333cc/gr VMD

To get a four grain load: 4.0gr x 0.133cc/gr = 0.53cc. Pick your cavity or adjust your charge bar accordingly.

Alan W said:

I am new to reloading and have read a few reloading manuals and manufacturers websites for load data. I received a set of Lee dies for .30-.30 and I noticed the instructions include load data. This Lee load data is not brand specific on the bullets. Is that acceptable? From reading reloading manuals I had assumed load data would be brand specific.

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Try that on and let us know how she fits
Eta, haveta click 12 ga, and change it to 30-30, good luck and be safe!

Alan W said:

I actually just picked that book up at Cabelas today.

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I get most of my data online, mostly because it's quick with all the different cartridges I load and is easy to help plan for future cartridges. Even with so much being available online, I still loan out my Lyman manual to anyone planning on getting started, then point them to the loadbooks. Got quite a couple tucked away for if the lights go out and definitely make use of the notes sections!

Welcome.

Not much to add except to be sure to record what you load, brass, primers, powder, and bullets. Among all the other stuff I record, I have found I also like to record where I got the data.

refuse2bafool said:

VMD is a very clever idea, but you need to determine a specific one for each container to take full advantage of the concept.

You will often get lighter than listed charges when using the auto disk. This is by design. Density of a given powder can vary up to 16%. The values on the tables are at the high end of density for that powder, which is the low end of VMD. If someone is foolish enough to load without a scale, the actual load may be less than the target load, but never greater. If you want to get very close on your first try you should calculate the VMD for each container of powder.

Take a dipper or other known volume of a powder and weigh it. Now divide the cc by the grains. That’s your VMD in cc/gr for that batch of powder. An example…

2cc/15gr = 0.1333cc/gr VMD

To get a four grain load: 4.0gr x 0.133cc/gr = 0.53cc. Pick your cavity or adjust your charge bar accordingly.

Click to expand...

VMD is essential useless. All a person has to do is actually WEIGH the powder charge with an accurate scale. Every bottle of powder will vary somewhat depending on several conditions. My lot of HP38 may weigh "slight" different than yours in another State, climate etc.
Some powders are pretty spot on to the Lee charts others are WAY off. I made my own charts for what each disc measure for every powder I used. It will be different that someone else Set the powder drop or use the scoop and weigh each one . Use enough to get an average of 10 or more. No need for "core" math.
Lee only provide the MIN OAL. The Lee data is compiled from OTHER sources many years ago
I started with the LEE manual and equipment so am not bashing Lee at all.

Just a thought I had a while back (not important enough to me to fret over the subject). If volume powder charging is so exacting/important, why does every one of the 12 reloading manuals I have list powder charges in grains, not cc/cu?

mdi said:

Just a thought I had a while back (not important enough to me to fret over the subject). If volume powder charging is so exacting/important, why does every one of the 12 reloading manuals I have list powder charges in grains, not cc/cu?

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Like I said above it is pretty much meaningless.

The Volume Measured Density (VMD) of a powder is the volume in cc's (cubic centimeter) that one grain of powder occupies. This can be used to calculate the dipper, disk cavity or powder measure setting required to obtain a desired weight of powder. The powder companies provide a VMD number or value for each type of powder. If you multiply the number of grains you wish to dispense times the VMD value the answer is the theoretical volume in cubic centimeters that are necessary to hold that grain weight of powder. Or grain weight x VMD = cubic centimeters. You can find the Powder VMD's by clicking on instructions at our website (www.leeprecision.com) and scrolling down to the bottom of the page and clicking on Powder VMD's. Once you know the number of cubic centimeters it takes to hold the powder charge you wish to dispense you can choose the proper disks. You choose the disk combination that is closest in size to the value of the formula without going over. If you have a scale check the weight of the powder charge dispensed by the disk combination.

https://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/245/27/vmd-explanation

Rule3 said:

VMD is essential useless.

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Before you go throwing around words such as "useless," you might want to consider the possibility that you don't understand the concept, because you obviously don’t. Your method is essentially trial and error, and highly inefficient at that. The instructions I posted are included with the Lee charge bar as a more “scientific” approach, as well as posted on Titan's website. I did not come up with them.

But hey, what would they know?

What you should say is that it’s useless to those of us who consider 6th grade multiplication and division “core math”.

mdi said:

Just a thought I had a while back (not important enough to me to fret over the subject). If volume powder charging is so exacting/important, why does every one of the 12 reloading manuals I have list powder charges in grains, not cc/cu?

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The available chemical energy is a function of mass, not volume. You use volume only as a means to get the mass you want. The mass of many things is predictably proportional to its volume. A gallon of water will always weigh 8.34lbs. On the other hand some things, such as gun powder, may vary in mass to volume ratio due to conditions in the manufacturing process. However, it is consistant enough to determine the ratio for a single container. Once you have that ratio you can then predict the proper cavity to use.

As far as I have seen, other manufacturers do not generally mark their powder handling devices in actual volume, though that may have changed as I have not used anything but Lee for power handling for many years. They tend to use arbitrary numbers, so there is no reason to include VMD in their manuals.

refuse2bafool said:

Before you go throwing around words such as "useless," you might want to consider the possibility that you don't understand the concept, because you obviously don’t. Your method is essentially trial and error, and highly inefficient at that. The instructions I posted are included with the Lee charge bar as a more “scientific” approach, as well as posted on Titan's website. I did not come up with them.

But hey, what would they know?

What you should say is that it’s useless to those of us who consider 6th grade multiplication and division “core math”.

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Well I see you need to resort to being rude and insulting .

Read the paragraph above from LEE. It is a Theoretical value then it says You choose the disk combination that is closest in size to the value of the formula without going over. If you have a scale check the weight of the powder charge dispensed by the disk combination. So that's as scientific as it get.

So you need to WEIGH it anyway.

I have used the LEE discs, double disks and charge bar for many many years. The discs are preset measure, you get what you get. The VMD of a lot of powders is listed in a pdf and "slide chart" by LEE so one can use that to get "close" to the actual disk.So there is no real need to do the math. As I said some powders are pretty close others are not, Powder lots vary and so does location so it is still a crap shoot and one needs to WEIGH the powder charge.

The VMD method is only somewhat useful for those using a Dipper of the Lee Disc system

https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf
https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/PAD_AD_Chart.pdf

This thread is getting too snarky for me; simple opinions/statements are challenged, some rudely. Thread originated with a simple question and morphed into a debate on the worth of powder volume vs weight charging, with math and physics "lessons".

Just wondering, is the offered weight of water for distilled, creek, Lake Michigan, Pacific Ocean or Dead Sea water??

Don't bother answering, I'm done...

refuse2bafool said:

Your method is essentially trial and error, and highly inefficient at that.

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It is trial and error, but I wouldn't say that simply taking a guess (usually guessing 1 size up from the Lee-listed cc-to-weight suggestion) and weighing the result (for several throws) is really that inefficient. I can usually get it on the first or second try. And I'm going to do just about as much check-weighing if I pick the CC size based on math. Your method isn't wrong, but I doubt it's actually much faster, if any.

Seems like a lot of heat to have about two slightly different approaches that end up in the same place in about the same amount of time.

Unless you use a dipper of a preset disc measure it is not going to do anything for weighing a powder charge

How is VMD useful for all the other powder measures out there? Plus it has nothing to do with the OP original question.

To find the VMD of a "unlisted" powder you still have to weigh it, Then chose a disc that is "close" to what you want you get what you get.

Of course you can go here and rehash it all over again.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lee-powder-measure.838550/page-2

ArchAngelCD said:

For the most part the bullet brand is not important.

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I would offer a caution which is contrary to this advice:

There are many bullets with unique profiles which simply do not behave the same way as others of the same weight. In some cases, mixing these with generic data for similar bullet weights might just lead to poor accuracy, in other cases, it can lead to excessive pressure events. Having data from the bullet manufacturer is important, as it can offer insight into safely loading their particular profile. For example - I can put more powder at lower pressure under a 180 grain HotCor in my B&D mag than I can put under a 158grn XTP. Why? Because the bearing surface of the XTP is twice as long as the HotCor. Monometal bullets, as another example, will be light for their length, and the solid copper body won’t conform to the bore as willingly as a leadcore bullet, so they’ll often have what appears to be reduced load data compared to other bullets on their weight class. Naturally, lead or plated bullets of the same weight often can’t use the same load data as jacketed bullets. Partitions & A-Frame’s will often act like a monometal, producing greater pressure at lower loads, and preferring a longer jump to the lands. COAL’s can’t be transferred from one bullet to the next. Bearing surfaces for a 50grn boattail and a 50grn flat base will be very different.

While it might seem confusing to rely upon multiple sources of data, and it might seem expensive to own multiple manuals, consider you’re operating what could potentially become a grenade. I own a few hundred dollars worth of loading manuals, buying more as they are released, and I keep a digital catalog of the free data available from powder manufacturers. I use my hands around 6,000 hours per year, and make my living with them - saving some data gathering and research time or saving a couple hundred bucks over a decade really isn’t any comparison to saving my fingers.