Weird results with new to me caliber

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QuietMike

QuietMike

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Hey all, I got a new henry big boy lever action rifle in 357/38 Sp
I loaded 3 different loads to try all same bullet

.38 with 3.5gr titegroup under a FMJ 158gr bullet seated long at 1.495”
.38 with 3.8gr TG at 1.495”
And 357 with 5.6gr TG at 1.6”

The 38 is the minimum starting load, and then slightly higher, the 357 is also just higher than the starting data

I wanted to go from lowest to highest overall, so I started with the 38 with 3.5gr
Well it went poof, and the bullet didn’t exit the barrel, so I pushed it back out, and thought maybe I didn’t fill that case and I tried another one with the same result.

The 38 with 3.6gr did exit the barrel and hit steel out at 35yd but sounded very weak,
and a couple of them that didn’t hit, I didn’t see the miss hit the ground but they weren’t in the barrel either.

The 357 all worked OK, but I think they’re a tad long, I loaded them long because I had heard that these guns prefer the longest possible cartridge.

with the 38 at 3.5gr, I was kind of concerned why they wouldn’t exit the barrel, it’s not under charged it’s just at the starting load according to the data, does the barrel being new cause extra drag, or is there anything I should be concerned about,
next time I order powder I’ll be getting a slower More medium powder but I have TG to work with at the moment
Should I just load hotter?
 
I would load a half grain hotter on all your loads. To start. It might be a new barrel, or it might be revolver loads in a longer rifle barrel. Titegroup is a good powder. You haven't mentioned what bullet you are using.
 
Titegroup is a super fast pistol powder and thus creates minimal gas volume compared to other potential propellants for that bullet and cartridge. I am not to surprised that you were sticking bullets with the super light Titegroup 38 Special load. If you going to stay with Titegroup I would definitely work your way closer to the maximum charge and use 38 Special +P data for Titegroup.

If you're loading for a carbine like your Henry Big Boy look at the various load data for you particular bullet and cartridge and try loads that use slower burning propellants of those offered. The slower burning propellant will give you better performance in the longer barrel and be less likely to stick a bullet in the barrel.
 
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Cool, thanks all, Would you suggest HP-38 or even slower like HS-6, i would like to be able to use standard primers (although its not the end of the world if i have to get magnum primers)
 
Yep longer barrel is an issue. In the wife's Marlin I run everything in 357 brass. For the plinking loads I use max 38 special loads. Plenty of safety margin there using 357 brass. It also handles max 357 loads quit nicely.

When I loaded cast for my 45 70 wanted to see at least 900 fps over the chronograph. If not every now and then one would hang up.
 
QuietMike said:
Hey all, I got a new henry big boy lever action rifle in 357/38 Sp
I loaded 3 different loads to try all same bullet

.38 with 3.5gr titegroup under a FMJ 158gr bullet seated long at 1.495”
.38 with 3.8gr TG at 1.495”
And 357 with 5.6gr TG at 1.6”

The 38 is the minimum starting load, and then slightly higher, the 357 is also just higher than the starting data

I wanted to go from lowest to highest overall, so I started with the 38 with 3.5gr
Well it went poof, and the bullet didn’t exit the barrel, so I pushed it back out, and thought maybe I didn’t fill that case and I tried another one with the same result.

The 38 with 3.6gr did exit the barrel and hit steel out at 35yd but sounded very weak,
and a couple of them that didn’t hit, I didn’t see the miss hit the ground but they weren’t in the barrel either.

The 357 all worked OK, but I think they’re a tad long, I loaded them long because I had heard that these guns prefer the longest possible cartridge.

with the 38 at 3.5gr, I was kind of concerned why they wouldn’t exit the barrel, it’s not under charged it’s just at the starting load according to the data, does the barrel being new cause extra drag, or is there anything I should be concerned about,
next time I order powder I’ll be getting a slower More medium powder but I have TG to work with at the moment
Should I just load hotter?
Click to expand...
You have a 1 to 1 expansion ratio (straight walled case) so you need a slower burning powder to keep the pressure curve more even for the longer bbl. I would load the max listed (revolver) for the 38 and the 357 for a rifle application. Hope this helped.
 
The only jacketed bullets I shoot are XTPs in 357 brass and I load them with h110. I feed my Henry cast 95 percent of the time I like Hodgdon Universal for that.
 
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I'm loading a single shot Henry with a 22" barrel, and had a similar issue with 158gr .38s and a starting load of Red Dot. Not quite stick in the barrel, but very soft and erratic. Have had no issues with near max (.38) HP 38 and 125 or 158 cast, and mid to max loads of HS-6 and H110 with 158 hardcast and jacketed.
 
QuietMike said:
Cool, thanks all, Would you suggest HP-38 or even slower like HS-6, i would like to be able to use standard primers (although its not the end of the world if i have to get magnum primers)
Click to expand...
First don't take these absolute values too serious they are from Quickloads and I did this fast and loose with none of my normal work up but it will demonstrate how the slower HS-6 works better in the carbine barrel then the faster HP-38 or Titegroup.

Titegroup Max charge* in 38 Special +P under a 158gr XTP is: 4.3 gr producing a peak pressure of 19,300 CUP
Quickloads predicts the follow velocity:
6-inch barrel: 908 fps
16-inch barrel 1063 fps
10 extra inches got 153 fps more velocity

HP-38 Max charge* in 38 Special +P under a 158gr XTP is: 4.6 gr producing a peak pressure of 18,100 CUP
Quickloads predicts the follow velocity:
6-inch barrel: 916 fps
16-inch barrel 1083 fps
10 extra inches got 167 fps more velocity

HS-6 Max charge* in 38 Special +P under a 158gr XTP is: 6.6 gr producing a peak pressure of 18,700 CUP
Quickloads predicts the follow velocity:
6-inch barrel: 979 fps
16-inch barrel 1205 fps
10 extra inches gets you 226 fps more velocity

As you can see as we moved to slower burning powders the velocity change increase for the same barrel length change. The Titegroup was all burnt in just over 2 inches of bullet travel. The HP38 took about 3.5 inches of bullet travel while the HS-6 was still burning right to the end of the barrel with just over 99% burnt at muzzle exit.

*Max charge came from Hodgdon's online load database.
 
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There is data out there for .357 Mag in rifles. It's a bit different than data for revolvers due to the difference in barrel length.
 
There is more friction to overcome in the longer rifle barrel than a shorter revolver barrel. It takes more pressure to overcome that friction over the longer distance.

I've seen starting loads stick jacketed bullets in 6" revolvers, but shoot fine in a 2" revolver. You simply need to up your loads to overcome the longer barrel's friction.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
As a general rule, you'll have fewer problems using cast bullets for low velocity rifle loads, especially with very fast powders that generate low muzzle pressures.
 
I know a ton of shooters like Titegroup, but I’ve never had a good experience with it. I had some CAS loads that would work in a revolver but stick in a rifle, so I dropped it completely and stick to Unique for my dual-sport (revolver-rifle) loads. I haven’t had an issue since.

HP-38 is another good dual load powder, I’ll use it on occasion.

Stay safe.
 
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