What would you do?

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AbitNutz

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I have a Canadian Ross Mk III that is in great shape on the outside but the bore looks like rats have been living it. I want to shoot it in some local class competitions. So I'm going to re-barrel it. Krieger will make the barrel and a local gunsmith will cut the threads, chamber and install it, all 30.5 inches of it. Ross rifles are renowned for their accuracy.

Here's the problem. The original barrel was .311, 4 groove, 1-10, left hand twist. Well the left hand twist is out. So getting back to true original is a no go. But I can certainly make it a .303 British in .311 with a 4 groove right hand twist 1 in 10. Or...I could chamber it for 303 British but use a barrel with a .308 bore and 5R rifling and any twist from 1 in 8 to 1 in 18.

If I put a .311 barrel on it I can use factory ammo in it. It's tough to find and expensive if I do. But I hand load. So that's not such a big deal. However, bullet selection is, and it's meager at best. If I go with a .308 diameter barrel I'll have a myriad of bullets to choose from.

A lot of people say that 5R rifling is really just a fad and doesn't offer any real advantages. I have a couple of rifles that have 5R barrels and have nothing but good luck with them. They shoot great and also have the benefit of being extremely easy to clean and when the barrel is 30.5 inches long, that might be important.

I'm leaning toward towards the .308 just because the care and feeding of it will be easier...but what would you wise folk do?
 
collector value is going to be decreased with a barrel change, so I would make it into whatever is going to be best for your shooting style. If you plan to primarily reload for this rifle, then the obvious choice is .308. If you plan to shoot more factory than reloads, then I would make the rifle suit the factory ammo.
 
I have a #1mk3 that takes 311 and there is a LOT more choices in 308, I purchased 2 different bullets when I got the dies and couldn't get it dialed in so now I just reload for plinking, I have multiple different 308 bullets and quantities of some that I could use if it was 308. I agree once you rebarrel it you will lose value to a collector so it becomes a shooter so I'd go 308, just note it somewhere for future owners.
 
I have a Canadian Ross Mk III that is in great shape on the outside but the bore looks like rats have been living it. I want to shoot it in some local class competitions. So I'm going to re-barrel it. Krieger will make the barrel and a local gunsmith will cut the threads, chamber and install it, all 30.5 inches of it. Ross rifles are renowned for their accuracy.

Here's the problem. The original barrel was .311, 4 groove, 1-10, left hand twist. Well the left hand twist is out. So getting back to true original is a no go. But I can certainly make it a .303 British in .311 with a 4 groove right hand twist 1 in 10. Or...I could chamber it for 303 British but use a barrel with a .308 bore and 5R rifling and any twist from 1 in 8 to 1 in 18.

If I put a .311 barrel on it I can use factory ammo in it. It's tough to find and expensive if I do. But I hand load. So that's not such a big deal. However, bullet selection is, and it's meager at best. If I go with a .308 diameter barrel I'll have a myriad of bullets to choose from.

A lot of people say that 5R rifling is really just a fad and doesn't offer any real advantages. I have a couple of rifles that have 5R barrels and have nothing but good luck with them. They shoot great and also have the benefit of being extremely easy to clean and when the barrel is 30.5 inches long, that might be important.

I'm leaning toward towards the .308 just because the care and feeding of it will be easier...but what would you wise folk do?

You would need to determine the original pressure levels of the cartridge that the rifle was designed to fire in the first place. If it was a sporter, then I am assuming that it was a .280 Ross which the original proofing was 28 tons aka about 62000 psi. If it was a Canadian ex-military rifle in .303 then it might be proofed for a lower pressure depending on the manufacturing and heat treatment used. In addition, the .280 is a semi rimmed cartridge and the .303 is definitely a rimmed cartridge. You may have some feeding problems from the magazine without adjusting the follower and perhaps the receiver lips for a different cartridge profile of the .308 and despite a premium barrel, you may spend a lot of money to get average minute of man military accuracy.
 
If the rifle ever leaves your hands, through sale, inheritance, or whatever, the undersize bore for what is ostensibly a .303 cartridge might pose a safety issue, with overpressure, etc. Yes, you are OK handloading for this, but what about down the road? How could you be sure the new owners would be aware of the quirk?

Stick with the .311 bore. Or engrave a prominent warning right on the barrel.
 
Plan A, make it a .303/.30 and mark it as such. If a .303 sneaks in, the bullet will swage down .003" without drama.
Plan B, make it a .30-40 Krag. That ought to suit the magazine (best try it first) and be a SAAMI spec. As said, a new commercial barrel is going to wipe out the collector value anyhow. You could mark it .30 Purdey for fun, that is the British designation for the cartridge as loaded for double rifles.
 
Jim Watson gives some good advice as does Alexander A.

I have come across quite a few oddities as I am deranged enough to purchase used barrels to restore old military firearms on occasion. Occasionally I will run into those that have been re-reamed to a new cartridge such as the 8mm-06, 6.5-257, and those that the identity is mistaken generally when these are not marked. It is easy enough to catch this stuff with gages, chamber casts, and borescopes but it is a pain. Be kind to someone behind you and always have the current chambering for ammo stamped on the barrel in an obvious place close to the receiver and most reputable gunsmiths will insist on doing that. Don't stamp the receiver as barrels and chamberings may change.

BTW, the Americans won the 1907 Palma competitions using Krags in .30-40 that had been altered to feed Spitzer bullets instead of the issued round nosed Army ammo. Old post about spitzers in the Krag Collector forum http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1503067289

The other choice is the .303 Epps which gives you about .308 in power via an improved British .303 case. One of these days I might change over one of my P14's to it that had the barrel chopped so it is not collectable. This guy has information on that
http://www.303british.com/id20.html

The Ross have odd followers and magazines so play around with snap caps or dummy rounds without the barrel on to make sure that whatever round you have feeds. If you are planning to compete or hunt with it, the worst thing would be misfeeds and possibly jams. You might also find some useful info from our Canadian friends up North on other forums as they are more acquainted with sportering these rifles in alternative cartridges.
 
I'd probably start by lapping the barrel to smooth out any pits and then see if accuracy is improved any. From a collector point of view I'd be hesitant to rebarrel it. I'd be more inclined to seek out an example with a good bore to compete with and leave this one as is. You could probably also find one that's been sporterized and put the action in your stock to make a match gun that looks original without compromising an unmolested gun.
 
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