45 ACP projectile bulge on the cartridge case

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I've searched and read lots of threads on this topic without a clear resolution. I'm loading .45 ACP, with Zero & Montana Gold 230 FMJs. I get a bulge in the case where the base of the bullet sits (not at the base nor 'Glock' bulge). I acknowledge they fit and function fine, and there is excellent neck tension. Still, I can't abide a bulge in my cases. I've tried Lee, RCBS and Lyman sizing dies and it's the same with every one. Brass brand doesn't seem to matter much either. I've also expanded a little more to help the concentrically of the seated bullet, and that didn't help either. What's the next step? Match-grade ultra seater die? A different sizing die? Factory ammo doesn't have this bulge at all. Thanks.
 
As you know, it doesn't matter. But you find the esthetics displeasing. I understand, I have a similar problem. There isn't much one can do about it.

All dies have 'tolerance'. That is they are cut 'perfectly' to resize the case plus or minus some minuscule amount due to the nature of cutting tools and expantion and contraction of materials (steel in the die). All cases are stamped and then machined to perfect size, plus or minus the same minuscule amount due to the same demons in the machines. Every once in a while the tolerances fit together in such a way (slightly thick walled case and 'tight' die) for the outside to be fine, but the inside diameter is just enough smaller to cause the bulge you notice.

It goes the other way as well, I have a group of .45 ACP cases that were just a tiny bit thin (but within limits of the manufacturer) and my dies were just a bit 'loose' and the bullets were somewhat vague in the respect of a tight fit. They worked, but not as i desired.

To fix your bulge, you can simply remove the decapper pin (as needed) and resize the entire loaded case. But then the bullet will be squeezed undersize and probably will shoot a bit looser groups. And you have to use a lot of case lube.

Yes, this is a bit lighthearted, but it is honest.
 
I like the bulge! Sort of mimics my waist line at the belt! :oops:

Look, a nice tight fit to the bullet, makes it harder for the bullet to be jammed in the case during feeding. No joke, I have been testing bullet set back when feeding rounds from the magazine to chamber in my RIA 1911. It is about a hundredths of an inch per attempt. I have some factory cartridges where the bullet was stuffed deeply in the case because the case is not as tight as mine.

As long as the cartridge feeds, ejects, you are good to go. Don't obsess about this. Your bulge issues are probably a manifestation of some obsessive compulsive behavior. I can offer diagnoses like this, without any ethical issues, because I am not a licensed psychiatrist. Instead, I am a quack! ;)

hOIQKmk.jpg
 
I have had four .45 ACP sizers. My first RCBS sizer was not tight enough to work with the thin walled RP bras (Not enough neck tension), so they sent me another one, but it was so tight I got a serious bulge under the base. I ordered a Redding and it was perfect, until the carbide sizer ring came out the second time. Redding sent me another one that wasn't as ideally sized but OK.. Problem was it scraped ridges on the brass, I called them and they told me I didn't know how to adjust a sizer, so I bought a Lyman and it does just fine, tight enough, but not too tight.

A tiny bit of bulge.
Berrys 230 Gr RN .45 ACP Crimp Pic @ 75%.JPG
 
Redding sent me another one that wasn't as ideally sized but OK.. Problem was it scraped ridges on the brass, I called them and they told me I didn't know how to adjust a sizer

I only have one Redding die set. I bought it for my .22-243. It scrapes the hell out of the brass ..... but it may be that I also don't know how to adjust a sizer either (rolling eyes).....yet the inside of that die looks like they never even bothered to polish it. That cured me from thinking Redding was extra special.....they think so.....never their fault.
IMG_2389.JPG

Everything else I have is RCBS or Lee. Never tried Lyman....must change that.....they've been around as long as anyone.
 
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The bulge is normal with sized cases. Factory ammo tends not to have the bulge because they aren't 'sized' like they are when put through a sizing die. You can demonstrate this by pulling a bullet from a factory round, then size it in your die. Measure it before and after and you'll see a difference there too. Then seat a bullet in the sized new case - the bulge appears!

If you can't stand the bulge, load your ammo only in new brass.

The bulge is cosmetic and there is no compelling evidence that crooked seated bullets are any less accurate in the typical pistol at typical distances. You can read more about bulges, ways to avoid asymmetrical bulges, and the effect on accuracy at this link: https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/exclusive-crooked-seated-bullets-and-accuracy/
 
What's the next step? Match-grade ultra seater die? A different sizing die?
As a matter of fact, that is the next step

Redding Dual Ring Carbide Sizing die sizes the neck correctly for neck tension while not over sizing the rest of the case. While you're at it, might as well use a Redding Expander to give you the Lyman M-die profile to hold your bullets straighter, before you run them into the Redding Competition Seating die which does an awesome job of ensuring that the bullet and case are in optimal alignment before seating. If you've gone this far, the only thing left is the Redding Micrometer Crimp die.

I don't have all the above, I just started reloading .45ACP, but a shooting buddy who shoots .45ACP exclusively swears by the setup. I do have these dies for loading .38Spl and 9mm...well, not the crimp die
 
The bulge is normal with sized cases. Factory ammo tends not to have the bulge because they aren't 'sized' like they are when put through a sizing die. You can demonstrate this by pulling a bullet from a factory round, then size it in your die. Measure it before and after and you'll see a difference there too. Then seat a bullet in the sized new case - the bulge appears!

If you can't stand the bulge, load your ammo only in new brass.

The bulge is cosmetic and there is no compelling evidence that crooked seated bullets are any less accurate in the typical pistol at typical distances. You can read more about bulges, ways to avoid asymmetrical bulges, and the effect on accuracy at this link: https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/exclusive-crooked-seated-bullets-and-accuracy/

Amazing link. If a 75 shot straight group is 2.51" in diameter at 25 yards, and a crooked group is 2.55", crookedness in pistol ammunition is not something to worry about. Any one here hold their pistol pistol groups to 0.04" at 25 yards?

Anyone want to admit that with a pistol, that they might be able to hold a wash tub at 25 yards if the big end is facing you?
 
Yes, I heard that....hope they hired all the talent.....
Back to the subject at hand: fxvr5's link is interesting....I always wondered by some .45s showed the bulge and others didn't....with the same cases, bullets, and dies. Must be presentation of the bullet, and equal pressure applied by the seating stem. Heck uniform wall thickness or lack thereof may have a hand in it too.
 
I like the bulge if it is uniform around the case, slim chance for set back and it makes it easy to determine bullet weight if the the so called permanent marker wears off of my load round.
Don't sweat the small stuff, It maybe useful.
 
I sort cases by headstamp and avoid using R-P cases
I use R-P cases for .452" cast lead, works well for me. The R-P case walls seems to be on the thin side, and I use them for cast lead bullets that run .001-.002" over jacketed diameters.
 
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Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading. Most reloading dies are setup for the shorter bodied smaller in diameter jacketed bullets. Typical sizing dies over size the cases too small in diameter. Take 10 cases that are fired from the firearm your reloading for and measure the diameter of them at the case mouth and at the web of the case. Then size them and re-measure, it's a real eye opener with +/ 8/1000's difference between a fired case and a sized case not uncommon.

Now that your starting out with an over sized case/cases sized too small. Factory dies are designed for jacketed bullets that are smaller in diameter and have short bodies. A lyman m-die.has a longer expander than traditional expanders designed for jacketed bullets.
vnmkz9e.jpg

A lyman m-die next to a factory expander for the 45acp. You can clearly see a water mark/ring on the lee expander where the 45acp brass ended/was flared to max flare. The lyman m-die does 200%+ deeper into the 45acp cases compared to the factory expander.
AtiYtlr.jpg

WCC match cases (thicker than commercial cases) loaded with h&g #86's that are sized to .452". No bullet bulge, no wasp waist, no gooder 8/1000's+ neck tension, just a bullet seated strait with an even/consistent neck tension.
rQlREhC.jpg

Typical 10-shot groups from the ammo pictured above.
lxO5I66.jpg
 
9mm's are no different from the 45acp's and the shorter smaller cases of the 9mm's are less forgiving. A factory expander next to a custom expander for the 9mm.
aFsP8TI.jpg

.358" cast bullets loaded in 9mm casers. Again no wasp waist, bullet bulge, gooder 8/1000's+ neck tension. The red bullet is an extremely long bodied bullet designed in 1900 for the 38s&w.
V87WlTN.jpg

Typical 10-shot groups @ 50ft with the green bullets/loads pictured above.
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Typical 10-shot groups @ 50yds with the red bullet pictured above.
77VoPsa.jpg

Starting a bullet and seating bullets strait is only 1 small part of the overall picture of reloading for the semi-auto's. Consistent neck tension and bullet bases that are not being swaged down when seating them play a huge role in accuracy/consistency. You can get away with over sized under expanded cases with jacketed bullets. A +/- 8bhn lead target bullet, not so much.
 
I will probably never get into the pretty green and red bullets, not that I don't want to. I don't do (never did) the competition hobby, I only reload for me.....even conceal carry. :eek: No boolits either, just Speers, and similar....and have some of Berrys new ones to load.

It's just that I really am slowing down....not my druthers. No Mark 7's in my future .... though such sounds fun as hell, that would mean a remodel. Not to mention, to justify it, I would have to quadruple my time at the range......and even if I wanted to do that, my wife has me remodeling the kitchen....she takes preference.:)

I sort cases by headstamp and avoid using R-P cases

I have always sorted cases, and use mostly Winchester cases, but have loaded some Remington too. Now you got me curious. Will have to look at my stash, and see if bulging occurred more in the Remingtons.....never noticed. I haven't noticed any bulging in .40 S&W, but will good harder. To be honest my reloads have shot fine enough groups for self defense carry and practice....so I haven't payed much attention to the bullet bulge. That's my new hobby.....pay more attention ;) This has been a fun read....thanks to all.
 
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forrest, and the rest - thanks so much for your help and taking the time to post photos. forrest - what dies do you use with the other steps besides expanding? I am using jacketed, not cast bullets. I think I am going to go with the following setup:

Lyman M expanding die
Redding sizing die (Walkalong - I tried the Lyman sizer and wasn't getting results like yours, however I'll keep at it. We'll see if I get scratches or not too...)
Redding Competition Seating die
Lyman taper crimp die

Nice article from the crooked-bullet guy too. Very informative.
 
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I only have one Redding die set. I bought it for my .22-243. It scrapes the hell out of the brass ..
We'll see if I get scratches or not too...)
I was not talking about scratches, the sizer's carbide ring was not formed properly on the leading edge and it would push brass down as it sized and leave a ridge below it at the base of the case. I wish I had a pic. I have only had one other die do this, and it was Lee U die in .38 Super.

A bulge below the base is OK if it is uniform all the way around.
 
From the linked to article, I have preached this here, you have to start the bullets straight even with sleeved seaters.
I tried a combination of the Lyman M die and the Redding Competition seating die, and tested it by setting the bullet in the case at as crooked an angle as the M die sizing would allow. The question was whether the Redding Competition die would straighten out the bullet. The answer is, mostly, but not completely. While seating with the Redding die did result in a bulge around the entire circumference of the case, it was slightly asymmetrical. Thus combining these two dies did not magically produce perfectly straight seated bullets. You still have to do your part when using the M die and place them as straight as possible.

In his test the crooked bullets shot straight, great, but I still want mine straight, because it is easy to do and looks more professional.
 
The M die and the Comp seater really improved my 9mm and 45 auto ammo.
I'm concerned if I don't see a nice even bulge all the way around the base of the bullet.
 
I only have one Redding die set. I bought it for my .22-243. It scrapes the hell out of the brass ..... but it may be that I also don't know how to adjust a sizer either (rolling eyes).....yet the inside of that die looks like they never even bothered to polish it. That cured me from thinking Redding was extra special.....they think so.....never their fault.
View attachment 866264

Everything else I have is RCBS or Lee. Never tried Lyman....must change that.....they've been around as long as anyone.

Here's how to fix that scratching die, and it only takes a few minutes. I've restored numerous dies using this method, both for myself and friends:

http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Polish

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
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