Is this an antique shotgun cartridge?

It has the appearance of a shotgun shell, but I am not sure if that is what it is, or whether it is antique or more modern. It was found near a spot where some moles were digging, so there is the possibility that it was under the surface for some time. I also heard that previously there had been a problem with rodents on this street, and this street goes back to the 1930s. I could see that maybe someone in the past would have used a shotgun to control them even in their own garden.

It’s heavy. A magnet does not react to it, so there is no metal in it I can’t say what material it is made of. I don't know much about shotguns, but it does resemble in size and shape a shotgun shell. And it appears to have been fired.

I have read that in the past there were paper hulled shotgun shells. If this is a shotgun shell, perhaps someone on this forum could explain that this strange object, very solid and heavy, could be without any metal in it. It feels and looks like almost a fossil, Take a look at the pictures.
The measuring tape is in centimeters.

Thanks!
AttilaH

Thanks Mosin. That is interesting what you say. In what context would dummy rounds be used? This is a residential area, but this town in Hungary was occupied by two or three different armies in WWII. A 7,62 × 25 Tokarev cartridge was found in the same garden. There doesn't appear to have been fighting in this town at that time, but it was common practice for troops to stay in people's homes,, particularly during the winter months. The Tokarev cartridge suggests soldiers stayed right here. Would they have used a dummy round as you described or could a civilian have used it. Makes me want to find out how restrictive the Communist governments were on gun ownership, particularly shotguns.

DocRock said:

Neanderthal 12 ga?

Looks like a piece of lead pipe packed with clay to me.

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Thanks Neanderthal12. The last photograph is of the top of it, and there is some structure that is in the center of it. I've already tested it for other metals, and it seems to have no metal content of any kind. If you look closely, you can see it. This object is perhaps something like what Mosin suggested, it's like a copy, and perhaps the material really is concrete, which is weird.

MosinT53Hunter said:

I would say, its a possible dummy round. There is no rim, so it would never fire from a shotgun, much less any other gun. Might even be a concrete dummy round, for what purpose, who knows.

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Concrete/cement was a popular material, in the 1930s, perhaps even more so than today. They even made telephone poles. fence poles, and the kitchen floor tiles out of it. I wouldn't be surprised, but my search on the internet for concrete dummy shells has come up empty.

Robbins290 said:

I would guess packed clay or concrete from a tool or stake. Like to hold up tomato's and such. And i would get packed clay/ concrete in a home made hoe with a pipe handle. It would fill up and the fall out. Same thing when i was making a tomato grower. Used standard pipe and it left little small chunks exactly how that looks.

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That's a good theory. In this garden there were various pipes set in concrete, and just pipes, to hold up something, probably tomatoes amd grape vines. Also, there are many old tools here. Probably, you are right! Thanks.

Robbins290 said:

I would guess packed clay or concrete from a tool or stake. Like to hold up tomato's and such. And i would get packed clay/ concrete in a home made hoe with a pipe handle. It would fill up and the fall out. Same thing when i was making a tomato grower. Used standard pipe and it left little small chunks exactly how that looks.

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I was pretty sure you were right, but just in case, I hit it with a hammer to see if it would just disintegrate. It didn't do that. It broke into two parts, all of it inside like charcoal, and the middle was another tube, black. Definitely manmade. Tomorrow, I will post a new picture.

Sovblocgunfan said:

Well, it’s hard to say. If it isn’t made of metal, then you should be able to clean it with hot soapy water and give it a little scrubbing. Perhaps that will reveal more of its origin.

It may be bakelite or early plastic filled with an insulation material. Like for electrical stuff.

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You could be right. Today I broke it with a hammer just to see what was inside. It does appear to be manmade, all black like charcoal, with another black tube in the center, similar to the effect that graphite has in a pencil (a tube inside a tube). I will post some new pictures tomorrow. When you see the picture tomorrow tell me if you still think it is an electrical insulator of some kind.

Jackrabbit1957 said:

An old firecracker maybe?

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You could be right. I will post a picture of the inside of the object tomorrow. Tell me what you think then.

Odd Job said:

Probably something not related to firearms at all. That recessed area is hexagonal.

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You could well be right. Tomorrow I will post a new picture of the inside of the thing.

Sovblocgunfan said:

May also be an old flare cartridge of some sort, or a starter shell that is associated with artillery. Or even an aircraft engine starting cartridge. Hard to say.

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Right. I just studied flare designs, at least WWII variants. They had a fuse (an internal tube) surrounded by charcoal which is exactly what I found here. So perhaps a flare from the War or, could it be a modern holiday celebration firecracker/rocket? It looks really old. I don't know much about firecrackers or old flares or WWII flares. I will post the new pics tomorrow. I assume it was fired because the top part of it looks like it was blown out.

Sovblocgunfan said:

Yeah, possibly. The only thing about it that looks non-flare to me is a lack of a rim. Usually these resemble shotgun shells that way. But that could have corroded away.

My money is on a flare cartridge. You may want to make a controlled burn on the contents of what you found...

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Hi Sovblocgunfan and the other posters who have kindly commented on this object, Here is the new picture. I'm tickled pink that Sovblocgunfan thinks it could be a flare cartridge, but to make sure I don't get embarrassed by claiming that, I'm going to play the devil's advocate and ask a few questions. First, though, this house and probably the whole village hosted the Soviet army (and maybe the Hungarian and German armies as well) before the attack on Budapest in 1944-1945. Also, iron nails in the ground from when they built the house in the 1930s, when found intact from the soil, have become ghosts of themselves. They are wispy things that literally crumble at the slightest pressure. Now the questions. Now that you see the inside of it, does this still look like a flare cartridge to you? You can see the size of it in the pictures at the top of the thread. The measure tape is cm by the way. Would a flare be so small? Is there anything about this that makes you think it is not an old firework? If it is a flare cartridge, do you think it was fired? What do you think the black material is (not the internal black tube)? Gunpowder or charcoal? There are some remains of whatever it was that held this thing together, but as you can see in the picture, the cover of this thing, what remains of it, is about 1/15 of a mm thick. Metal detection devices record no metal in the object in its current form. I look forward to hearing from you. This is interesting.