You might want to scrub serial numbers in online pix posts.

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boom boom said:
Jar,
How about red flag laws--would you want your worst enemy to know exactly what sort of firearm including the serial number you have? One of the keys to a good lie is to have a grain of truth in it such as an exact description of the gun that you "threatened" them with. Then how do you prove your innocence.

There are private investigators buying access to data from Google/Facebook that could be used for employment denials or firing during background checks (potential work place shooter as they have a gun). Use of the information in inheritance and divorce cases? Being banned from social media (social media companies sometimes cooperate in cross bannings because they share information all the time) for being anti-social is another possibility when companies like Paypal can even fire you as a customer or a seller for using their financial services to buy/sell something they do not like.

Targeting for harassment such as when lists of CCW holders were published is another reason. It could be used to determine whether you violate state laws on things like magazine size, storage, firearm alterations which given the legal uncertainties such as the "no feature" versus grandfathered in some states is a problem as the laws keep changing.

Any data that government wants from a third party such as Google, etc. can be obtained by a simple request or subpoena if the company is feeling onry. You have no rights to reject at that point. In addition, they can pretty much sell your data to anyone and do so that a very detailed profile can be developed.

The answer is while you might not care now, the internet is forever, and you might have reason to care in the future.
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Yawn.

People can take advantage of you and actually them knowing the serial number of the gun I supposedly threatened them with does not strengthen their claim, it just makes them look like morons.
 
boom boom said:
Jar,
How about red flag laws--would you want your worst enemy to know exactly what sort of firearm including the serial number you have? One of the keys to a good lie is to have a grain of truth in it such as an exact description of the gun that you "threatened" them with. Then how do you prove your innocence.

There are private investigators buying access to data from Google/Facebook that could be used for employment denials or firing during background checks (potential work place shooter as they have a gun). Use of the information in inheritance and divorce cases? Being banned from social media (social media companies sometimes cooperate in cross bannings because they share information all the time) for being anti-social is another possibility when companies like Paypal can even fire you as a customer or a seller for using their financial services to buy/sell something they do not like.

Targeting for harassment such as when lists of CCW holders were published is another reason. It could be used to determine whether you violate state laws on things like magazine size, storage, firearm alterations which given the legal uncertainties such as the "no feature" versus grandfathered in some states is a problem as the laws keep changing.

Any data that government wants from a third party such as Google, etc. can be obtained by a simple request or subpoena if the company is feeling onry. You have no rights to reject at that point. In addition, they can pretty much sell your data to anyone and do so that a very detailed profile can be developed.

The answer is while you might not care now, the internet is forever, and you might have reason to care in the future.
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I think you nailed it. We have no clue as to the amount of information being collected on us and how that could be used one day. Right now (at least I hope) most of that data is compartmentalized. But if it’s all put together it can paint a scary picture. Those Red Flag laws are one of the last nails in that coffin, so let’s do a thought experiment:

You post some pictures of your Glock and AR15 on a gun forum, and the serial numbers are recorded by some tech giant. Later you post on a separate Conservative or Libertarian forum about how the government is too controlling. Next you go to and watch a video about making your own gunpowder, just out of pure curiosity. Then maybe you read a few too many articles on the latest mass shooting. Somewhere, all of this information is collected on you. After years and years of various posts and all this information getting collected into various databases, a picture of who you are in the online community is put together by some algorithm. This algorithm decided that, based on data collected on known domestic terrorists, you fit the profile of someone about to commit an atrocity based on the firearms you own and the websites you frequent and the articles you read. Red flag laws allows authorities to come seize your firearms and they know exactly what they’re looking for because Google has records of each serial number. By then Universal Background Check laws are in place, so simply saying “I sold that gun” isn’t going to work because the ATF can't find a record of you selling that gun. Maybe they even temporarily lock you up. Eventually you’re set free and get your firearms back, but you spent thousands in lawyer fees to prove your innocence from an act that was never committed. Your place of employment fired you because even though you did nothing wrong, you're a risk to them now.

Sure, this is all sounds like paranoia, but the technology is rapidly becoming available to make Minority Report become reality.
 
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I don't really post pictures online, much less pictures of guns, but the whole serial number thing is over-blown. At the point where they know you've got 3 1911's, 4 Glock's, 2 AR-15's, etc the serial number doesn't really matter that much. If they can read the serial number they can read the make, model, and caliber... Once they know you're a member of 6 different online gun forums, a member of the NRA, and have an annual pass to your states DNR ranges a few random serial number is irrelevant.
 
My question... the best way to document for insurance purposes (and often required for coverage) is a photograph including serial number. So, with “spy tech” and unknown, unapproved, small print clicky screen agreement “info sharing” being what it is, does your phone automatically upload to a database which will report... oh wait yeah that’s called iCloud or the other sites. Are those being looked at... yes, and you probably electronically agreed to it.
 
MachIVshooter said:
It has always been a bad idea to post photos with visible serial numbers. Best thing is to cover them before taking a photo, but next best is to edit the number out before ever uploading.



And rip the microphones out of anything you don't want listening in.

It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you. I can't understand why people are so willing to invite this spy tech into their homes with all the amazon automation and whatnot. Yes, you really have to have a mobile phone and other technologies if you want to be a part of society these days, but that doesn't mean you have tolerate the invasion of privacy.

I have the front facing camera on my mobile disabled, as is the one on my desktop. I literally ripped the microphone out of the desktop, as well as all the kid's tablets, the Fire TV remote and anything else that has internet connectivity except for the phones which obviously need them to function as phones. Just have to be mindful of the fact that they are listening

I don't do this because I have anything to hide, just don't like being spied on, data being compiled on me & my family for any reason without my express permission.
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You can remove microphone on a phone if you have a jack plug not sure of word. And plug in a microphone headset when phone rings or you need to make a call. It's a pita but it works. No one can listen unless it's plugged in. Just a thought.
 
Demi-human said:
But then my phone can't see me and unlock for me.:(

And, apparently, will only do so if I am not angry...:confused:

It turns off when it sees I'm not giving it any attention...

(REDACTED. :evil:;))

O strange, new world...
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I have mine set up with finger print. Which I don't recommend. Face and password. Privacy is a thing of the past.
 
Meeks36 said:
Privacy is a thing of the past.
Click to expand...

Remember, privacy really didn't exist in the past. Your neighbors knew everything about you and your family going back at least five generations and gleefully shared all the sordid details freely. In addition, few allowed truth or facts to spoil a good story.
 
whughett said:
Is it the media creating all this paranoia or is it a natural human trait. My address is public, my phone number is public, the state and feds have my picture on drivers license and passports. I’m not overly worried that the serial number of a fire arm is visible in a photo on a forum. All my firearms are all legal and the number are recorded somewhere any way.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of people out there that think the way that you do just as a lot of folks describe folks that worry about their personal safety as "paranoid" because their experiences and expectations do not "jive" with what others see.

Because of my job, I deal with researching situations including some very disturbing ones where the tools of surveillance have been used by individuals, companies, and governments for very bad things. Coupled with computer databases, it makes it easy to tie information together with a bow in seconds that would have either been impossible in the past or extremely difficult or expensive.

Why should people collaborate with such evil? Secret police chief Lavrenty Beria of the NKVD and Stalin era fame boasted, "Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime." Computer databases make that easy and convenient.
https://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2010/criminalization-almost-everything

My wife liked watching "Househunters Intl" and one time they had an apartment building built in East Berlin during the Cold War. Every apartment was wired for sound and cameras were installed which were discovered when they renovated the building for new apartments. At the time, estimates are that the Stasi had between 1 and 7 and 1 and 10 E. Germans working as either full time Stasi employees or as part time informers. https://infogalactic.com/info/Stasi Despite all of that, they had to tediously listen in real time to conversations, tapes, etc. and Stasi people get bored, disinterested, shirk, etc. Dossiers were on paper and the compilations for an enemy of state took a lot of time, money, etc. and thus authorities were concentrated due to human frailty on relatively few "dissidents" while the omnipresent spying was done to impress the population not to become a dissident. For reasons of state, the E. Germans would pick out someone just to make a point and crush them as a warning to others on relatively minor offenses (buying black market jeans for example) But, people must sleep, even Stasi agents, people get bored, people have feelings such as sympathy, people can be corrupted through bribes, people get stuff confused, etc. A human tyrant will eventually succumb to data overload and human foibles. Not so computer networks as they never sleep, never forget, never get lazy, and make the perfect complement to the ultimate in a modern tyranny. The most appalling thing is that the "machine" gets people to willingly give up their information for free (or for minor conveniences such as ordering toilet paper via Alexa instead of going to the store) that the companies and government can then exploit which they could not get otherwise.

Imagine how efficient the Stasi would be now--a cashless society means that every transaction could be tracked, your Alexa/Fire/Cell Phone could be turned on and off for audio surveillance, the geo locator on your phone and/or car would indicate where you were at any time within a matter of a few feet, your social media accounts, magazine subscriptions, what books and magazines you read, when you are up and when you sleep, what tv programs that you like, and personal texts/emails/likes, etc can be examined for "bad thoughts" AND the whole process can be automated with the information gathered by a few key strokes. For the most part, the individual agent only has to type in search terms to access information that would have taken weeks or even months to accumulate before. What is worse, is that companies are also in on the grift--the government looks the other way while companies accumulate their dossiers and sell the information for fun and profit but promptly cooperate with governments across the globe so as to have access to that country's market.

Everyone that filled out the SF-86 for decades numbering millions which is required for security clearances had their data handed off to the Chinese via hacking. This also means that government already had this information in a compact database ready for easy searching already. In that document, people were required by law to answer extremely embarrassing questions regarding finances, relationships, past problems with the law, etc. Paper records of millions of people could have never been compromised that readily as a Ryder rental truck showing up to load thousands of boxes of records would be rather obvious and easy to stop before it made it to China.

Computers with data collection have made it possible for the first time to have an entire population monitored in real time and algorithms enable the Chinese for example to have something like a "social credit system" which effectively is like a credit score--if the government/corporations determine that you own a firearm then you might lose jobs, or be forbidden/pay higher prices for financial products such as insurance, lose access to credit as you might spend it on "bad things", and even travel as the Chinese use internal passports. https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4/

As a brief example,
For example, right now, if you have a modern car, it has a black box that indicates speed, acceleration, brakes, audio, seat belt etc. https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/automobile-black-box-laws.html

That information in many states is determined not to belong with you and thus can be shared with police, insurance companies, etc. Did you speed through the intersection? etc. Your devices that you "own" can effectively testify to your detriment in both civil and criminal actions rendering the 5th Amendment protections archaic.

By the way, folks might want to read Three Felonies a Day by Harvey Silvergate or simply do an internet search (using Duck Duck Go for example) on that because even just the federal system is replete with crimes that you may have committed--for example transferring a movie on VHS to digital or copying/download songs, videos, etc. or violated the terms of agreement on a website--the boring stuff you scroll past to give agreement to.
https://www.maxim.com/not_migrating/7-felonies-youve-probably-committed-your-lifetime
 
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jar said:
Remember, privacy really didn't exist in the past. Your neighbors knew everything about you and your family going back at least five generations and gleefully shared all the sordid details freely. In addition, few allowed truth or facts to spoil a good story.
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True but it was local, now some turd in China is listening and watching me and my old lady bump uglys.
 
Huh, yet another indicator that the old-school liberals were right to be concerned about vast "private" power accumulated in the hands of global corporations and their hyper-wealthy masters. Too bad so many of them are fixated on "guns r bad" to give a rip about this. And too bad the conservatives were so fixated on doing away with government regulation of all private businesses (no antitrust enforcement, no net neutrality, etc.) that they helped create this situation.
 
kheeka said:
I see that many here really dont get what people can do with the information collected by bots running around the web. Half the people here probably dont even know what a bot is. See this news article about a website that dox's people who contributed to President Trump.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/racist-watch-website-demonizes-trump-supporters-but-it-has-an-upside/

It aint 1955 anymore.
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I know how scary it is my wife is in school for IT. And the things she can do are scary. Knowledgeable ppl can get your IP address and your physical address. And it's not very hard if you know what your doing. One reason I never use Wi-Fi. Only Mobil data . Might slow someone down. But if someone wants to they can find your life story online. Kinda scary. Google and FB collect tons of info.
 
One of the things is the the rule of holes applies, when you are in a hole, stop digging. There are multiple ways that you can rebel at the surveillance system.

General purpose, easy to understand websites that cover privacy along with other issues
Kim Kommando who is a longtime tech guru has a general website about technology including how to protect your privacy and safety online
https://www.komando.com/tips/category/fraud-security-privacy

Clark Howard, a consumer advocate for a long time, has a technology tab with easy explanations of steps that you can take to protect your privacy and more https://clark.com/technology/ Clark also has detailed information about how to lock down your credit reports from unauthorized snooping or id fraud.


Some additional resources that can help protect your privacy from specific threats. Be aware that technology moves fast and thus keeping up on general websites can identify problems quickly.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/goodbye-google-why-and-how-to-take-back-your-privacy/
https://www.informationweek.com/software/social/5-google-opt-out-settings-to-check/d/d-id/1113405
https://www.imore.com/how-stop-facebook-tracking-your-location
https://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Facebook-from-Tracking-You

Privacy Setting on Social Media from Experian (credit monitoring company) https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/how-to-manage-your-privacy-settings-on-social-media/ and Norton (Norton Antivirus) https://us.norton.com/internetsecurity-privacy-protecting-privacy-social-media.html

Facebook tips https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/7/1...y-data-information-ad-settings-how-to-protect

Uploaded images https://petapixel.com/2016/12/09/comprehensive-guide-protecting-photos-online/

Kindle Fire https://www.dummies.com/consumer-electronics/tablets/kindle/privacy-settings-on-your-kindle-fire/

FireTV https://www.websafetytips.com/how-to-increase-your-privacy-on-fire-tv-or-stick/

How to block Android Apps. https://www.wikihow.com/Block-Tracking-Apps-on-Android

Iphone protections https://www.iphonelife.com/content/10-tips-to-protect-your-iphone-hackers

VPN Services https://www.cnet.com/best-vpn-services-directory/ and a few have slower versions for free.

Government CERT for securing your browser https://www.us-cert.gov/publications/securing-your-web-browser

Free Private Encrypted Email https://protonmail.com/ and others https://www.lifewire.com/best-secure-email-services-4136763

Best Browsers for security 2019 https://www.lifewire.com/best-private-web-browsers-4177138
https://nordvpn.com/blog/best-privacy-browser/ (Nord is a popular VPN seller so it knows which browsers work best with VPNs).

Internet of Things (any devices that might be connected to the internet with or without your knowledge such as TV's, thermostats, refrigerators, washing machines, etc. )
https://www.trendmicro.com/us/iot-security/Solutions/IoT-Security

And U.S. Government IOT Privacy protections https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ccips/page/file/984001/download

https://www.pcmag.com/article/361455/start-securing-your-network-from-consumer-grade-iot-threats
 
Google the user name that you use on this site, and see what pops up. If your user name is any way related to your real name, Google might make the jump to list other things that have something similar to your real name. I was shocked to see how close it came to my real name.
 
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I think that we are past the point of return as relates to privacy. We like our phones. We like our tablets. We love the world wide web. Google knows all. Hey, Google.

Would I post a pic online of a gun I own with its serial number showing? No. Why would I?
 
No info for my sign on name appears linking it to me. I never post photos of any weapons on any forum.
All people know is I am one of 1.6+ million people living somewhere in Idaho.
And many people post the photos of their guns taken via cell phones and many people (including me) have an extension on their browser that reads the exif info of the file and pinpoints the GPS on a map. Yes, many people forget their phone imports GPS into the exif file and needs to be turned off.
 
RETG said:
No info for my sign on name appears linking it to me. I never post photos of any weapons on any forum.
All people know is I am one of 1.6+ million people living somewhere in Idaho.
And many people post the photos of their guns taken via cell phones and many people (including me) have an extension on their browser that reads the exif info of the file and pinpoints the GPS on a map. Yes, many people forget their phone imports GPS into the exif file and needs to be turned off.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, and where you travel during the day or night and where you stop and shop and eat and what you buy. Some of it can work to our advantage but we need to be aware and use on/off judiciously.
 
I always expect that anything I do on my computer, phone and my credit card purchases is all recorded and kept. Then searched for whatever information is needed

Anyone remember the “Carnivore” software that searched the web for certain phrases and words
I believe it was being run out of the US to circumvent US laws.
 
JONWILL said:
I always expect that anything I do on my computer, phone and my credit card purchases is all recorded and kept. Then searched for whatever information is needed

Anyone remember the “Carnivore” software that searched the web for certain phrases and words
I believe it was being run out of the US to circumvent US laws.
Click to expand...

Yes. I think it ran on the Deep Web. ALLEGEDLY!!!! LOL
 
cjwils said:
Google the user name that you use on this site, and see what pops up. If your user name is any way related to your real name, Google might make the jump to list other things that have something similar to your real name. I was shocked to see how close it came to my real name.
Click to expand...
I tried and the hits were not safe for work.:uhoh: Buried under a mound of hits that were NFSW but I did not run a search on an empty GI helmet.
 
VPNs and Tor make it a bit more difficult because they randomize and encrypt internet traffic both ways but essentially the NSA can probably break most encryption down if they have a reason to do so. Haven't kept up with the technical means of intercepts which you can probably find through internet searches if you wish. But, that technique is not readily available, if at all, to regular folks. That being said, you need to protect your online information at least as much as securing your house and do not feed the crocodile lest you find yourself doxxed.

It is easy enough to protect your privacy from casual snooping if you wish without really suffering much and the links that I have posted indicate how. If you place low value on privacy, then do nothing--the law of statistics say that might be okay for now. If you do, then you consider the tradeoffs in what you do online versus the privacy gain via hassles in protecting it.

Re: the Carnivore discussion, the current Five Eyes agreement is where apparently each participating country, Great Britain, Canada, US, Australia, and New Zealand share intelligence information. It has been perverted apparently to spy on each others citizens on occasion via digital communication intercepts and databases and pass information back to the country as "tips" to law enforcement, counter intelligence, and to private contractors (probably for plausible deniability when leaking to political operatives and news media). The whole kerfluffle that arose with Trump's lawyer being confused with another Cohen that was in Prague via newspaper stories was probably gained through such queries.
 
Some time ago I bought a musket from an on-line auction. It was missing a lower band. When I tried to find that part on Google I found someone using the picture of the gun that I had bought to sell a probably fictitious musket on another auction site.
I don't put pictures of my guns online unless there are already copies posted online from someone else.
 
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