243 Win vs 6.5 Creedmoor Bullet Ogive

We’ve been building long throat, fast twist 243’s for decades. Where have you been?

Ttrl

Roamin_Wade said:

What does ttrl stand for?

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115 Bergers, dtacs...other stuff....

only downside to long throated .243s, or .260s, is they don't fit in 2.8ish magazines.

the 6.5cm only has a couple grain or of difference in capacity compared to a standard 243 or 260 also.

You COULD modify a rifle in 260 or 243 with special barrels and chambers designed for the longer high BC bullets, then modify the magazine so the cartridges will fit. Shooters have been dong that for years. Or simply buy one of the Creedmoor offerings and pick up ammo off the shelf and do the same thing.

.Why couldn’t someone extend the throat in the chamber of the 243 by machining the rifling back to allow for a longer projectile

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It's more than the throat. The barrel twist is all wrong. You'd have to buy a custom barrel with a faster twist and a longer throat.

Making it work with 25-06 is a lot harder proposition. Even if you modified the rifle there are no bullets being manufactured currently that could take advantage of it. It could be done, but with a proliferation of good choices in both 24 and 26 caliber there just isn't any demand to split the difference and try to do it with 25 caliber.

jmr40 said:

Making it work with 25-06 is a lot harder proposition. Even if you modified the rifle there are no bullets being manufactured currently that could take advantage of it

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there are a few, but not many.

From my understanding, even the berger vld would benefit from a faster twist.

Sorry for the interruption...

horsemen61 said:

Tag to read later

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There is also a "Watch Thread" button in the upper right corner that will give the same alerts to thread posting.

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To that, there are throating reamers that do just that, @Roamin_Wade.

It makes shooting a single loading proposition, in many rifles, but like Varmint says, is not uncommon.

I think the trick is finding a long action to fit your long bullet short cartridge with...
Thereby losing all the benefits of the short action...

Roamin_Wade said:

What bullet do you use for your hand loads on those longer rounds?

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103's, 105's, and 107's

Roamin_Wade said:

I’m sitting here looking at several cartridges and studying the 243 Win and the 6.5 Creedmoor, I noticed that the 243 has a larger case which would allow more powder. The 6.5 definitely has a much longer projectile-to-diameter ogive which is its stabilizing virtue. My question is this...Why couldn’t someone extend the throat in the chamber of the 243 by machining the rifling back to allow for a longer projectile which would then compete for the long range accuracy that the 6.5 Creedmoor has? For that matter, why not do the same thing for a 25-06?

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For a long range precision build, I'd gear up a .250ai or one of the ones mentioned here:
https://blackjackbullets.com/product-category/bullets/?v=7516fd43adaa
For the 131 gr, you're looking at twist rate as your biggest issue, custom barrels help, but realistically (and I'm a HUGE .243 fan) anything chambered in Creedmoor should already have an appropriate twist. So a short action 25x47 COULD be awesome with the 131, but is it REALLY worth the extra fuss? (Applies to all 25s here) until bullet and barrel manufacturers decide to more universally revive the .25 and .27 lines, it's hard for me to find a reason to look beyond metric choices, my 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm are far more capable of what I need with less hassle. Now if you're just craving an Uber long range 25, then more power to you!

Ditto to all those explaining the 6 Creedmoor does in factory form what the 243win can only do with custom barrels and custom reamer prints.

In fast twist 6mm’s, I used to shoot a lot of 105 A-max’s And 105 VLD’s. Today, I shoot 103 and 108 ELD’s and 105 Hybrids. I won some 110 A-tips yesterday, looking forward to trying them out.

I grew up with Magnumitis, starting my deer hunting and coyote hunting life ~30 years ago with a borrowed 270win, after which I bought my own 30-06. I bought a 243win as a dedicated coyote and prairie dog rifle about 20yrs ago, and quickly realized how efficient and effective it was for deer sized game. The 243win became what I consider to be the most efficient whitetail hunting cartridge on the market, with no concessions. But I always wanted them to do more - so I blew out the shoulders to an AI, ordered custom barrels, dies, and reamers for shooting proper weight bullets for the case capacity... all spending a lot of money to do what can be done today with factory rifles and ammunition in 6 creedmoor.

More reading for @Roamin_Wade:

6mm BR database article on 243win.

In 25-06, the 131 Ace from Blackjack and blowing the shoulder out to AI is a real game changer. Not quite a 25 RSAUM, but really quite capable.

horsey300 said:

For a long range precision build, I'd gear up a .250ai or one of the ones mentioned here:
https://blackjackbullets.com/product-category/bullets/?v=7516fd43adaa
For the 131 gr, you're looking at twist rate as your biggest issue, custom barrels help, but realistically (and I'm a HUGE .243 fan) anything chambered in Creedmoor should already have an appropriate twist. So a short action 25x47 COULD be awesome with the 131, but is it REALLY worth the extra fuss? (Applies to all 25s here) until bullet and barrel manufacturers decide to more universally revive the .25 and .27 lines, it's hard for me to find a reason to look beyond metric choices, my 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm are far more capable of what I need with less hassle. Now if you're just craving an Uber long range 25, then more power to you!

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Be wierd! I'm thinking I wanna to a build with a m7 in fast twist .250AI....
or...

Varminterror said:

In 25-06, the 131 Ace from Blackjack and blowing the shoulder out to AI

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that.

course my list of projects is longer than my list of components....or available funds.....these two options seem real interesting to me for some reason tho.

Demi-human said:

...I think the trick is finding a long action to fit your long bullet short cartridge with...
Thereby losing all the benefits of the short action...

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... and its shortcomings as well.

LoonWulf said:

Be wierd! I'm thinking I wanna to a build with a m7 in fast twist .250AI....
or...

that.

course my list of projects is longer than my list of components....or available funds.....these two options seem real interesting to me for some reason tho.

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If I was building an XP-100 in 25 cal, I would go with the 25-284 or a 25 PRC with the Black Jack bullets

xphunter said:

25 PRC with the Black Jack bullets

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All kinds of barrel-hate on that round! I feel like some obligatory SJW would be picketing your range with a #barrellivesmatter sign!

xphunter said:

If I was building an XP-100 in 25 cal, I would go with the 25-284 or a 25 PRC with the Black Jack bullets

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those would be really neat as well!

6mm Creedmore?

Varminterror said:

All kinds of barrel-hate on that round! I feel like some obligatory SJW would be picketing your range with a #barrellivesmatter sign!

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Barrels are replaceable...Truth be known, heavy for caliber bullets extend overbore cartridges throat life, compared to trying to get the most speed with light weight bullets. I run 22 Creed's as well and a 20 BR...All in XP-100's of course!

Skip the 6’s, 6.5’s for big game. The 7mm is superior for shooting live critters. BTDT.
For paper punching, the 6mmCreedmoor has overtaken the 6.5.
Longer barrel life than .243W or AI.

A 7mm08 will match velocity/accuracy/ trajectory of the 6.5 though be it with larger powder charge and greater recoil at similar velocity/bullet b.c. with greater bullet weight, impact energy. I had a 6.5. Still have a .260.Gave 6.5 to a friend who had contracted the 6.5 delirium. Thinks it’s supposed to killed deer/elk like his .300WSM. JUST MIGHT , If he shorts them just right...
If....

Varminterror said:

Ditto to all those explaining the 6 Creedmoor does in factory form what the 243win can only do with custom barrels and custom reamer prints.

In fast twist 6mm’s, I used to shoot a lot of 105 A-max’s And 105 VLD’s. Today, I shoot 103 and 108 ELD’s and 105 Hybrids. I won some 110 A-tips yesterday, looking forward to trying them out.

I grew up with Magnumitis, starting my deer hunting and coyote hunting life ~30 years ago with a borrowed 270win, after which I bought my own 30-06. I bought a 243win as a dedicated coyote and prairie dog rifle about 20yrs ago, and quickly realized how efficient and effective it was for deer sized game. The 243win became what I consider to be the most efficient whitetail hunting cartridge on the market, with no concessions. But I always wanted them to do more - so I blew out the shoulders to an AI, ordered custom barrels, dies, and reamers for shooting proper weight bullets for the case capacity... all spending a lot of money to do what can be done today with factory rifles and ammunition in 6 creedmoor.

More reading for @Roamin_Wade:

6mm BR database article on 243win.

In 25-06, the 131 Ace from Blackjack and blowing the shoulder out to AI is a real game changer. Not quite a 25 RSAUM, but really quite capable.

Click to expand...

Please do not lie to everyone constantly about 6.5 Creedmoor. What varmint-error is not telling you is that comparing 243 Win. and 6.5 Creedmoor is only useful if we include the intended purpose. As a point blank coyote or deer rifle a shooter would be better served with a 243. While a long range target shooter will enjoy the increased BC of of the 6.5. Specifically for varmints, a 243 shooting 70 gr Nosler BT will be much flatter than a 6.5, and enable more hits in actual hunting situations while saving on lead and recoil. But please do not tell new shooters that the 6.5 is better for all their needs.

now that we got our anti-creedmoor hackles up......who said ANYTHING about it being better than the 243. we were simply discussing the fact that the 243 is not spec for the really long bullets that a lot of people are now shooting.

at the very least we could compare the 243 to the right creedmoor.

if all you want to do is shoot varmint weight to 100 grain hunting bullets, then there's nothing against the 243. If you do happen to want to shoot the heavy, vld types the 6mm creedmoor offers you better options out of the gate.
I apologize for jumping in but I'm getting tired of this revolving argument