Sig response to Springfield Hellcat.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jeb Stuart said:
I find it interesting that the PF11 is not mentioned more. I wonder if Keltec will revisit that design or others copy it and improve on it. Actually what is interesting about the Keltec was the fact that is in theory is a better design. Less Weight, Not as long and more concealable.Almost 4oz difference in weight. They ended up dropping the gun and went back to the light weight PF9 at only around 12 oz.
View attachment 867942
Click to expand...

I've noticed it's not on their website any more.
 
Plan2Live said:
Call me a snowflake but I find the video tasteless. Given their history of genocide I don't find Nazi humor amusing. I respect the Nazis for their technical innovations and acknowledge we never would have gotten to the moon without a bunch of their scientists but equating any modern company to Nazi Germany is just downright tasteless.
Click to expand...

You must have missed Mel Brooks "The Producers" great movie, but you prolly would be offended.

I thought this video was very creative and very funny.
 
Im weird . I love to see any Gun Manufacturer come out with a new gun .. Especially now .. When so many ignorant far Left Liberals are trying to pi$$ on our 2nd Amendment rights

Even though at this time , Im more than pleased with my Glock 43 and Im sure I will be more than happy with my S&W Shield that is awaiting me at the LGS ...

I lean toward Glocks ..but I own other brands of pistols also ...

I hope Springfield and Sig sells tons of these pistols... Tons . I hope the these Micro Pistols bring in new gun owners ..and these pistols help law-abiding citizens protect themselves and loved ones ...
 
JR24 said:
I've noticed it's not on their website any more.
Click to expand...

It appears that gun was released in 1999 to 2019. I have a strange feeling with all the hype of high round count now going on they may very well come out with a new version soon.Or they may just say, let the hype have it's time and just keep the PF9. Personally I would be more interested in this gun due to the fact that it is so light, proven itself over so many years, parts are inexpensive and DAO.

I am set on the guns I now own. Very content. However, I like small, light weight guns as a hobby so to speak. I am thinking now about the PF9. . The only Place I see now to get the PF11 is on gun broker.
Makes me wonder if Sig released the 365 at the same time they new the Keltec was going to discontine the PF11?? Sig would not be able to make the CLAIM of highest round count with Keltec in the way! I wonder what kind of deal they made with Keltec??

 
Last edited:
Jeb Stuart said:
It appears that gun was released in 1999 to 2019. I have a strange feeling with all the hype of high round count now going on they may very well come out with a new version soon.Or they may just say, let the hype have it's time and just keep the PF9. Personally I would be more interested in this gun due to the fact that it is so light, proven itself over so many years, parts are inexpensive and DAO.

I am set on the guns I now own. Very content. However, I like small, light weight guns as a hobby so to speak. I am thinking now about the PF9. . The only Place I see now to get the PF11 is on gun broker.
Makes me wonder if Sig released the 365 at the same time they new the Keltec was going to discontine the PF11?? Sig would not be able to make the CLAIM of highest round count with Keltec in the way! I wonder what kind of deal they made with Keltec??

Click to expand...


Well Sig DID market it as a "game changer" when of course they were only 10 years late to the party.

So, who knows.
 
Keltec and the PF11 had at least two things going against it a decade ago when I was in the market for a SD pistol.
1. They were notoriously unable to keep up with demand.
2. The 9# trigger was notoriously terrible.
 
sparkyv said:
Keltec and the PF11 had at least two things going against it a decade ago when I was in the market for a SD pistol.
1. They were notoriously unable to keep up with demand.
2. The 9# trigger was notoriously terrible.
Click to expand...
Was the 1st ccw gun I bought many moons ago since at the time all I had was a G17c and shotgun. After I got into shooting more I realized how atrocious the trigger was. I don’t need a PPQ or LC9s pro light trigger, but that heavy was not ok to me. I sold it for the next best thing at the time, I think an SR9c. If they had better trigger would have been fine. Maybe the Sccy’s is better? Anyways, I’ll be grabbing a Hellcat before summer barring any major issues.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
I find it interesting that the PF11 is not mentioned more. I wonder if Keltec will revisit that design or others copy it and improve on it. Actually what is interesting about the Keltec was the fact that is in theory is a better design. Less Weight, Not as long and more concealable.Almost 4oz difference in weight. They ended up dropping the gun and went back to the light weight PF9 at only around 12 oz.
View attachment 867942
Click to expand...
The problem with the P11, like the PF9, is the trigger. It's a long, heavy DAO like pull and that doesn't make for a good shooter further than point blank distances. There's a reason that Ruger dropped the LC9, a direct PF9 copy, for the LC9s- the trigger pull was far superior. Same thing with the LCPII, but Ruger at least acknowledges that there are some who prefer the LCP trigger, so they make both.
 
TTv2 said:
The problem with the P11, like the PF9, is the trigger. It's a long, heavy DAO like pull and that doesn't make for a good shooter further than point blank distances. There's a reason that Ruger dropped the LC9, a direct PF9 copy, for the LC9s- the trigger pull was far superior. Same thing with the LCPII, but Ruger at least acknowledges that there are some who prefer the LCP trigger, so they make both.
Click to expand...

Lol, triggers are so subjective. I have a LC9S and will no longer carry due to the fact that it has become to light. Even called Ruger to see what the could do and had it sent in. I owned the original LC9 and that was a little extreme, but there are wonderful DAO triggers out there and for small concealed carry they are Ideal for many. Smooth, deliberate and controlled all the way through And yes, your example of the LCP Gen 2 and the LCP ll are good examples.
Keltec could very easily come out with the same upgraded Micro 9mm with a new trigger.
However I think we are missing the point. Regardless of if you like the PF11, their trigger etc. It was in fact the Worlds highest captivity Micro 9mm NOT Sig. The timing on the discontinuation of the PF11 and the release of the 365 is more IMO than just a coincidence. Or shall I say I do not believe in Coincidences. Not with that much money involved.
So in Marketing dollars, how much is the "Title" worth? Do you think Sig wanted to advertise, "We have the second largest capacity Micro 9mm in the world next to Keltec PFll!" My Gosh, think what Keltec could advertise NOW had they not discontinued the PF11! Shazam!
 
Last edited:
Jeb Stuart said:
Keltec could very easily come out with the same upgraded Micro 9mm with a new trigger.
Click to expand...
They could and they might, but when it comes to their traditional CCW pistols they're hesitant to make any changes to the design; their .32, .380, and 9mm's are almost unchanged since they first released them.

Fact is that if the P11 was a good gun, more people would have bought it. Instead, people mostly went with the PF9 because of its lighter weight, lower price, and slimmer profile.
 
I have a PF9 and a P 11 And they both fire when you pull the trigger. Other than that they are crude firearms. The P365 is a fine pistol. You have to laugh at any comparison. Unless shooting skill is crude also.
 
FU
Jeb Stuart said:
Lol, triggers are so subjective. I have a LC9S and will no longer carry due to the fact that it has become to light. Even called Ruger to see what the could do and had it sent in. I owned the original LC9 and that was a little extreme, but there are wonderful DAO triggers out there and for small concealed carry they are Ideal for many. Smooth, deliberate and controlled all the way through And yes, your example of the LCP Gen 2 and the LCP ll are good examples.
Keltec could very easily come out with the same upgraded Micro 9mm with a new trigger.
However I think we are missing the point. Regardless of if you like the PF11, their trigger etc. It was in fact the Worlds highest captivity Micro 9mm NOT Sig. The timing on the discontinuation of the PF11 and the release of the 365 is more IMO than just a coincidence. Or shall I say I do not believe in Coincidences. Not with that much money involved.
So in Marketing dollars, how much is the "Title" worth? Do you think Sig wanted to advertise, "We have the second largest capacity Micro 9mm in the world next to Keltec PFll!" My Gosh, think what Keltec could advertise NOW had they not discontinued the PF11! Shazam!
Click to expand...

I had a KelTec P-11. It was a bit rough to start with. I sanded out the magwell to get the magazines to drop free. I also bought a steel mag catch from a guy at KTOG that milled them out because I messed up the factory one. Other than that I ran it as it came from the factory. As has been said it had a long, heavy catchy trigger. It was true DAO. I don't think I could ever accuse it of being a good trigger but the little pistol was accurate & worked well. I decided I wanted something nicer & let go of it but it was a decent carry pistol. Just not very refined.
 
I am not sure of all the particulars as I haven't ever had one but Sccy makes a clone that is very similar to the P-11.
 
I don't think anybody who bought the p365 was seriously considering buying the P11, then went to the gun store, found out they were discontinued, and were up sold on a gun that cost 3x as much.
 
TTv2 said:
I don't think anybody who bought the p365 was seriously considering buying the P11, then went to the gun store, found out they were discontinued, and were up sold on a gun that cost 3x as much.
Click to expand...

Probably the reverse would happen now if the PF11 was not discontinued. Again this is not about the PF11. The power of advertising and mass media attention. But once again, Lol, the issue is why the PF11 was discontinued at the same time as the release of the 365. I do not know anything about the PF11, but have been on the Keltec forum and quite surprised at how many folks actually love the PF9. I confess to never having paid much attention to one, until I bought the Keltec P32 of which I am very impressed. No not the fine stainless steel build of some other guns, but shoots fine and reliable and a good trigger.
So what IF Keltec does refine the PF11 and comes out with a nice DAO and as you say 3X less. Would it sell? I sure would be interested. And am interested now in the PF9 at 12oz. vs almost 18.

But we are getting way off track. Back to the video. I hope to see more, it was a totally good bit of humor and even Sig 365 owners had a good time. (at least most of them)
 
I was never a fan of the P11 but I do like the PF-9 a lot. I also like the P-32.

I don't like any of the small Ruger pistols mostly because the copied the Kel-Tec pistols as their own.

The Sig P-365 is a really nice pistol IMO.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
So what IF Keltec does refine the PF11 and comes out with a nice DAO and as you say 3X less. Would it sell? I sure would be interested. And am interested now in the PF9 at 12oz. vs almost 18.
Click to expand...
I always thought the PF9 was the improved P-11. It seemed to me they combined the P11 and P-3AT and came up with the PF-9. I know that's an oversimplification but is think that is the general idea.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

W
  • Locked
hellcat
Replies
2
Views
422
needmorecowbell
needmorecowbell
Buckeye63
  • Locked
Size comparison Hellcat vs P365
2 3 4
Replies
96
Views
8K
Jeb Stuart
Jeb Stuart
C
  • Locked
Any Hellcat Users with Feedback on the Sights in Low Light?
Replies
1
Views
182
mavracer
mavracer
Yo Mama
  • Locked
Question for Hellcat owners
Replies
15
Views
495
Lennyjoe
Lennyjoe
DTL
  • Locked
Which Hellcat
Replies
3
Views
342
Bo
Bo
Back
Top