Why are my Shots Walking?

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Just buy a new rifle. The barrel is toast. Even new rifles walk when the barrel heats up. The price for a new barrel, a good one, and gunsmith to install, will be more than a new rifle. Guaranteed.

Some mfg's will guarantee 1 moa with their ammo. The new rifles are that good!!! It's no BS, I have one.
 
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the good thing on a forum like this is a lets those who obey the rules express them selves. how ever the rest of us has to seperate the talk that confuses and throws dirt in the air. what a cryo treatment doesnt help is a barrel that is bored off center, very few of those. the only thing that helps those to to turn them on a lathe so the bore is on center. also if the bullet is too long or short for the twist of the rifle. it wont preform as it should. the green hill fourmula helps sort this out. if the muzzle crown isnt perfect that can affect accuracy also. i run into this 2 days ago. the factory muzzle crown was the worse ive ever seen. i fixed that in 15 minutes. its hard to reply here because the neg. from one source is almost over welming. to that person. shoot your guns, believe what you accept, and let those who want to learn the science of shooting accurate without constantly messing with this and that go on a learn from each other. their are three ways to relieve stress in a rifle barrel that i know of. cryo treating, sonic treating the metal and high heatmethod in a vacuum or the barrel packed with non carrosive packing material and the barrel wrapped tight in a type of material for that. the cryo method also makes the steel stronger and more slippery. the other to do not but just relieve stress. all olympic rifles by the american team are sonic stress relieved. their is no barrel whip in them. before you send a barrel off to be cryo treated, balance it on a finger and tap it. remember the sound you hear. when you get is back do it again. you can tell the difference as it will be softer and sweeter and no clunk sounds. its not rocket science. shooters dont be confused by someone who throws dirt in the air and states things in a lot of words that have no science or meat to them. in the dozens of barrels i have had cryo treated over the last 25 years, none came back with bad effects from it. ive built tack drivers at any range. cryo teating, the right length of bullet for the twist of the barrel and a good crown, the stress of making it shoot is over and it becomes a very good boring gun. i love boring, boring is bliss. it means reliablity and consistantly good accuracy.
 
what a cryo treatment doesnt help is a barrel that is bored off center, very few of those

A F Class bud of mine, who has placed first a number of times at National Events, he sent a rifle off and had a new premium barrel installed by a competent gunsmith. The thing consistently shot off to one side, lets say right . It shot so far right it used up virtually all the windage his scope could provide. Back went the rifle to the gunsmith. Who removed the barrel and installed a new one. Bud is happy with the new barrel.

But, gunsmith (who also does my barrels) told me he marked the take off barrel to identify its rotation when shooting left. Then, he offered the barrel to another at a discount, telling the individual of the barrel's history. What the gunsmith did was rotate the barrel in the new installation such that it shot down, instead of to the right. And this worked well for the shooter who used it as a 1000 yard rifle barrel. I understood he hardly had to add any elevation, and it shot consistently.

Gun drills wander through the tube. One gunsmith I know sectioned a barrel and told me he could see the hole moving off center within the barrel, even though it was centered at the end of the blank.
 
its hard to reply here because the neg. from one source is almost over welming. to that person. shoot your guns, believe what you accept, and let those who want to learn the science of shooting accurate without constantly messing with this and that go on a learn from each other.

You can say me, the non-believer, it’s ok. How do I make it “hard to reply”? What “dirt” am I throwing in the air? Repeating “it’s science” is of little consequence as “science” is the study of hypothesis. We, those who believe in science, look at results obtained by specific, repeatable trial.

Viagra came about in a search for a better blood pressure medication. We all know what it’s prescribed for, and it ain’t high blood pressure. And like the pharmaceutical industry the cryogenic industry is more than willing to reach beyond their wheelhouse to expand profits.

Back to my question about BR guys using cryo: these guys shoot a ton. They wear out multiple barrels a year. They spend huge money on new barrels. If cryo worked, why aren’t they buying cheap take-off barrels for $40 and whatever “treatment” costs are and pocketing thousands in savings? Why? Are they in love with wasting money? Have they not been privy to this decades old “super secret”? Is there not one willing to risk a few bucks on this hard and proven “science”?

Repeating the same claim won’t make a believer out of me. Show us your before and after targets with just cryo treatment and learn me a thing or two.
 
you did not read my replys or you would have seen that ive dont trials on about 30 rifles. you just like to argue. i wont comment to you anymore. hope to never meet you as i will go else wheres. this site is for those who want to learn and your welcome but you have nothing but thrown dirt in the air words.if you reply to this reply your may be a narstistic personality. check it out on the internet and see if it fits you. it may help you mature.maybe ive helped you in this area of your life.
 
Ad hominem attack is the final desperation shot of a loosing argument. I, Jerry MaGuire, am begging you to look up what I said. Reply to this without proof and you’ll be proving my point.
 
Before one can believe cryogenics improves barrels, one needs a coherent explanation of why it works involving properties that can be measured or seen, not just hand waved about. For example, if you think it changes the grain structure, well, grain structure can be photographed. Don't just hand wave about it, take a picture.

There are more than enough accuracy problems associated with the dimensions of the receiver and barrel, external forces on the system, and the timing of loads:
- receiver and bolt faces out of true
- barrels and receivers not drilled or threaded centered and true
- chambers too big, out of round, or off center
- all sorts of tool marks
- barrels that aren't drilled straight or that have been bent out of straight
- barrel tight spots that swage down bullets and cause gas blow-by
- muzzle erosion and cleaning damage that causes gas blow-by
- throat dimensions that cause a non-straight bullet start
- loads that exit the barrel on an anti-node and suffer gas blow-by
- inconsistent forces applied by things other than the receiver touching the barrel (stocks, bands, the shooter's hands and shoulder etc.)
- inconsistent burn

I have yet to see any evidence that in the absence of the above problems, barrel "stress" is a major issue. I have seen that when presented with a rifle that won't shoot (or walks), if you go over it you will consistently find the above problems.
 
It should also be said that any cryogenic or heat treating process that's going to be used on any barrel near MY face needs to provide compelling information about its effect on the strength and cracking properties of the barrel (or action) steel.
 
dont use it, who cares, your the expert, rave on. every one know what you posted, man some people are stuck in the stone age and horse a buggy days. sorry i ever gave a reply here. too many armchair experts that never get to a point.
 
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