Smith & Wesson Model 19

Congratulations, and welcome to the S&W wheel gun club!

The issue with the 19 (at least up until a couple years ago when they reintroduced it on a new, larger frame) is not so much the frame being too light as it does not allow sufficient room between the barrel extenson and the ejector rod clearance cut. As a result, the forcing cone has to have a "flat" machined into it at the bottom. This metal there is quite thin and prone to cracking when subjected to light, fast bullets such as 110 and 125gr. Magnums.


Most authorities advise only shooting modest quantities of 158gr Magnums in an older 19, casual range use should probably be restricted to .38s.

Ive had many 19s and they are fine shooting guns. I have never noticed a significant accuracy diffrence when shooting .38 cases out of them, despite the extra cylinder freebore, unlike some .357s which really need the longer cases to shine at the range (ahem, Ruger, cough, cough).

I believe there was an issue with the forcing cone cracking. Something about the new (at the time 125gr) load and the speed the bullet was moving.
I'm sure someone will come along with more info.
I have a 19 also and love it.

Charlie Martinez said:

I just bought my first S&W revolver, a used, blued SW Model 19 - 4" barrel with custom grips in very nice condition. The blue finish is beautiful & the gun feels great. Accuracy with 38 Sp. HBWC target loads is excellent.

However a range buddy said that the "problem" with Model 19's is that the frame is too light for regular use with 357 Magnum loads & recommended that I limit my shooting to light 357 Mag loads or +P 38 Special rounds.

Revolvers are not common at my range these days but I know lots of people still have Model 19's. Can someone please tell me about their experience with these guns?

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Your friend is basically correct, especially with 125 gr bullets at high velocity. When introduced, it was envisioned that LEOs would practice with 38s and limit the use of full power 357. High volume of 357 may result in forcing cone issues, including cracking (why S&W came out with the L frame guns. I have your gun's cousin, the 66 in 4" and a RB 2-1/2" 19. 38s are SO much pleasant to shoot then full power 357s.
Have fun with your new gun

What he said! Shoot the 158 grain magnum rounds and you should be fine. If you want to carry the 125 grain for defense that is not going to hurt the piece. That is what I do, shoot a very few 125 grain and carry that for defense. I have a couple of the model 19's and they are one of my favorite revolvers to shoot and carry.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Congratulations, and welcome to the S&W wheel gun club!

The issue with the 19 (at least up until a couple years ago when they reintroduced it on a new, larger frame) is not so much the frame being too light as it does not allow sufficient room between the barrel extenson and the ejector rod clearance cut. As a result, the forcing cone has to have a "flat" machined into it at the bottom. This metal there is quite thin and prone to cracking when subjected to light, fast bullets such as 110 and 125gr. Magnums.

View attachment 868161
Most authorities advise only shooting modest quantities of 158gr Magnums in an older 19, most range use should probably be restricted to .38s.

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Charlie Martinez said:

I just bought my first S&W revolver, a used, blued SW Model 19 - 4" barrel with custom grips in very nice condition. The blue finish is beautiful & the gun feels great. Accuracy with 38 Sp. HBWC target loads is excellent.

However a range buddy said that the "problem" with Model 19's is that the frame is too light for regular use with 357 Magnum loads & recommended that I limit my shooting to light 357 Mag loads or +P 38 Special rounds.

Revolvers are not common at my range these days but I know lots of people still have Model 19's. Can someone please tell me about their experience with these guns?

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Pics?

I have two model 19's that I shoot frequently. I've shot some light 357 loads in them using 2400 and 158's. The problem with that is 2400 isn't exactly a good powder to use in reduced loads. Lots of unburnt powder to deal with.

There are some powders that work fine in the 357 that burn clean with reduced velocity. They aren't slow powders though and weren't designed for the 357 like 2400 was. I've found a real nice 800 fps load using 158's and a shotgun powder.

The model 19 is essentially a K frame 38 and should be treated as such. If you want a decent 357, buy an L frame or maybe even an N frame.

Enjoy your new gun. K frames are very popular and my choice when it comes to S&W revolvers.

Nice start, you picked what may be the nicest blued K frame model out there!

The flat bottom of the forcing cone produces what engineers call a stress riser, an area where stress is concentrated, and thus more likely to fail. The light, fast moving 125g loads seem to cause the most problems, so I just avoid shooting them in my Model 65.

Good luck with yours!

Congrats on your acquisition. The M19 was basically a response to those that wanted a duty pistol that carried lighter than the beefy N frame Smith's. Bill Jordan was a master of the model 19 and it was featured frequently in his shooting exhibitions. As others have mentioned above, it is best to reserve the steady pounding of full house .357's to the L and N frame revolvers and just use that occasionally in the lighter K frame.

I've owned a model 19 for many years. It's an excellent firearm. I've shot it a bit with 357 loads but in all honesty never enjoyed the experience. It gets shot as a 38 special. Call me a wimp if you want but I don't enjoy an aching hand. Got a Dan Wesson also. It's a much more comfortable revolver to shoot 357 in for some reason.

My first wheel gun was also a model 19. I've since gone through 20 some odd Smith wheel guns (and a few Rugers and a couple others).

That first 4" M19-3 is still with me and among my favorites.

My pile-o-m19's:


Avoid firebreathing light bullet loads and keep the 38's coming and you'll enjoy it for a long time. Even longer if you stock up on a spare barrel.

My first center fire handgun was a 6" model 19 and thats the gun I learned to reload on. I shot everything from 110 to 158gr bullets with every powder I had and every load in the Speer #10 manual. I never had any damage at all from high speed light bullet loads. But I did get my best accuracy with 140-158gr bullets so thats what I shot the most of.

I finally settled on a hard cast 158gr lead bullet in a 357 case with 6.6grs of Unique powder. That gets you around 1100-11150fps and is a nice mid range 357 load. Its my most shot load in all my 357 guns. I used that load to kill a large Goat we were going to BBQ. I had a raking shot and just as I pulled the trigger the Goat took off. So my bullet went in through the left leg and exited through the right shoulder area. The goat dropped after two steps. The shoulder blade had a perfectly round 36 caliber hole in it where the bullet went through. That load is similar to the old 38/44 load that lead to the 357 loading.

Charlie Martinez said:

Here you go fellasView attachment 868172 View attachment 868173

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Very nice, you got the Target Hammer and Trigger which were optional on 4" guns too.

That old axiom doesn't take into account the capabilities of the reloader. I use .357 Magnum brass exclusively. I have loads for small, medium, and large sized guns. My "small" gun is an SP101 getting 125 grain or smaller bullets, usually lead, and mild loads that make the gun enjoyable to shoot, not necessarily without significant recoil. My "medium" is my nickel 19-4, which gets 158 grain bullets, usually lead at about 12 hardness. I use either loads between +p and minimum .357 Magnum or lower end magnum load ranges. I don't have a "large" gun like a 627 N-frame, but my Ruger Match Champion can handle any round I care to shoot, the true magnums. I actually call these Tier I, Tier II, and Tier III, the same as load ranges for some other cartridges like .45 Colt and 44 Magnum.

My 19-4 will not accept full length brass. I have a separate batch of cases trimmed to 1.265 (sized).

I'm pretty fond of the Model 19 myself. The first handgun I owned was a Model 19, and I've probably owned a dozen or so over the years. Never had a problem with any of them, but I freely admit that (1) I don't shoot anywhere near enough to worry about wearing anything out, and (2) I don't usually shoot anything but 38 ammo in them. Paper targets just don't take much killing.

My current 19 is a -9, that I got right after Smith and Wesson reintroduced the brand. No, it's maybe not as pretty as the old guns, but man it is a shooter, especially with 357 ammo. You need 357 sometimes for cardboard...

Yes, it was the regular shooting of the hyper 125 jacketed loads that caused the forcing cone cracks. The magnum loads are, really, seldom needed. Most of my shooting with .357s is with .38 spl loads. I particularly like the full wadcutter loads and they satisfy probably 95% of my revolver needs. I have a special .357 load I developed especially for my M19. It uses a magnum case, 12.5 grains of 2400 and the 155 grain to 165 grain swc either plain or gas check versions. That load gives right at 1150 fps from my 4" 19. That's my magnum load for the revolver.

What a wonderful gun!

I have several, and carry one every day. I never shoot 125s through them, though I know people who do. My "carry" load is a 158 semi-wadcutter with a hollow point and a gas check and enough 2400 or H110 to move them along at about 1200 fps. I shoot those occasionally, but mostly practice with a lower pressure load. I really dislike "crud rings" so never use .38 brass in a .357, but relatively light loads are easy to concoct with .357 brass and a 148 hbwc. It would be hard to shoot enough of those to wear out a gun...

Nice, my pinned-recessed 4” M-19 was traded off years ago for a .454 SRH, and Ive wanted a replacement for a long time.

I ended up finding the M-19’s stainless twin (M-66) and going with that.

Welcome to the club of the Smith &Wesson revolver, I think you’re going to enjoy it!

Stay safe.

As a reloader, I've put together thousands of .38 Spl loads in .357 brass. With lead wadcutter bullets, I use the old standbys Bullseye and Red Dot. Both are fast powders. Mostly I do it to keep a crud ring from building up at .38 Spl case mouths that would interfere with full-length .357 cases.

They're a little more stout than .38 target loads but well below full-power .38s. I try to keep them around 800fps to minimize leading. They're pleasant to shoot and accurate. The idea for this came from my old Speer #9 manual which has some easy shooting lead bullet .357 loads.

If you reload, your model 19 should thrive on these loads while still being able to go .357 full-power at any time.

RealGun said:

My 19-4 will not accept full length brass. I have a separate batch of cases trimmed to 1.265 (sized).

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Have you checked the cylinders to see if there if a carbon build up ring from shooting .38 Special? This is very common and if you shoot a lot of .38 in a .357 a ring will build up in the cylinder and can prevent .357 cases from seating in the cylinder. There are several ways to remove. You can take a brass cleaning brush and brush the hell out of it by hand with a good solvent such as Hoppes or M-7. Takes forever but will work. What I do is to take a .40 caliber brass brush and mount it on a cordless drill using a cut off cleaning rod. Soak the cylinders in the cleaning solvent for a while and then fun the drill in and out slowly. Same thing as by hand, but takes less time.
One way to check and see if it is a ring built up is if you reload, take a .357 case and lightly flare the case like you were expanding it to insert a bullet. You don't need to expand it quite a much. Just enough that it barely fits in the cylinder. Push it in and when you feel it stop, tap it lightly with a small hammer and the flared case will usually cut the ring at least enough that the case goes in. If that works, to it to all the cylinders and then go back and use a brush. You might for some reason have short cylinders, but I'm betting there is a carbon ring built up.

Howdy

I bought my Model 19-3 brand-spanky new back in 1975. Still have the box and all the goodies.









Your friend is incorrect about the frame being too light for regular use of 357 Magnum ammo. A has been pointed out, it is the clearance cut in the forcing cone that causes the problem with split forcing cones. This is the forcing cone on my Model 19. Notice the flat at the bottom. The flat makes the cross section of the forcing cone a little bit thinner right there. The flat has been there since about 1905 on all K frame S&W revolvers. It is necessary to clear the gas ring on the cylinder when the cylinder is closed. The problem occurs with repeated shooting of high velocity light weight bullets in 357 Magnum. No guarantee that the forcing cone will crack, but it might at some point.






My Model 19 has nice big grips. Back in the 1970s they were called Oversized Target grips. They help absorb recoil from 357 Magnum loads and make them more comfortable to shoot.



To tell you the truth, I prefer to shoot magnums through a Model 28. N frame revolvers never needed the clearance cut at the bottom of the forcing cone, there was enough clearance that it was not needed. Even with Magna grips I prefer shooting Mags through these Model 28s.

Eddietruett said:

Have you checked the cylinders to see if there if a carbon build up ring from shooting .38 Special? This is very common and if you shoot a lot of .38 in a .357 a ring will build up in the cylinder and can prevent .357 cases from seating in the cylinder. There are several ways to remove. You can take a brass cleaning brush and brush the hell out of it by hand with a good solvent such as Hoppes or M-7. Takes forever but will work. What I do is to take a .40 caliber brass brush and mount it on a cordless drill using a cut off cleaning rod. Soak the cylinders in the cleaning solvent for a while and then fun the drill in and out slowly. Same thing as by hand, but takes less time.
One way to check and see if it is a ring built up is if you reload, take a .357 case and lightly flare the case like you were expanding it to insert a bullet. You don't need to expand it quite a much. Just enough that it barely fits in the cylinder. Push it in and when you feel it stop, tap it lightly with a small hammer and the flared case will usually cut the ring at least enough that the case goes in. If that works, to it to all the cylinders and then go back and use a brush. You might for some reason have short cylinders, but I'm betting there is a carbon ring built up.

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No, the cylinders never see 38 Special. This cylinder has also been reworked to open the throats, which would not restrict the brass. Just trust me that it is necessary to trim the brass. That solved the issue of rounds that passed a gauge still not fully chambering. What you describe could cause a similar issue though. Thanks.

Eddietruett said:

Have you checked the cylinders to see if there if a carbon build up ring from shooting .38 Special? This is very common and if you shoot a lot of .38 in a .357 a ring will build up in the cylinder and can prevent .357 cases from seating in the cylinder. There are several ways to remove. You can take a brass cleaning brush and brush the hell out of it by hand with a good solvent such as Hoppes or M-7. Takes forever but will work. What I do is to take a .40 caliber brass brush and mount it on a cordless drill using a cut off cleaning rod. Soak the cylinders in the cleaning solvent for a while and then fun the drill in and out slowly. Same thing as by hand, but takes less time.
One way to check and see if it is a ring built up is if you reload, take a .357 case and lightly flare the case like you were expanding it to insert a bullet. You don't need to expand it quite a much. Just enough that it barely fits in the cylinder. Push it in and when you feel it stop, tap it lightly with a small hammer and the flared case will usually cut the ring at least enough that the case goes in. If that works, to it to all the cylinders and then go back and use a brush. You might for some reason have short cylinders, but I'm betting there is a carbon ring built up.

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Attaching a case like that to a short rod helps in that endeavor