Can we dispel the whole "Glock Grip Angle" nonsense already?

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Trey Veston

Trey Veston

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I like Glocks. Mostly. I think they are a bit overpriced, and not the most attractive pistol. I get that the stock trigger can be a bit too gritty or too stiff.

But I simply don't understand the grip angle complaint.

I'm beginning to suspect that it is a made-up thing by people that had a Glock touch them inappropriately so they have an excuse to not like them.

I've had a few carry pistols over the years. My favorite was a Walther P99 in .40 S&W in the early 2000's, before they got all funky looking with goofy slides. Then I got into XDs, before the Grip Zone retardation phase. Then I found M&Ps and carried them. Now I rotate between a Gen 5 G19 and a S&W M&P40c 1.0.

As I was fondling them both tonight, I got to thinking about the whole "Glock grip angle is awful and I can't get comfortable with it..." controversy.

So I compared my G19 and my M&P40c side by side and really can't see a difference in grip angle. Both feel pretty darn good, or they wouldn't be my carry guns. The M&P is a little smaller overall, which is why it is my primary carry pistol.

But grip angle???

Maybe I'm just not high-speed enough to realize how offensive and awful a couple of degrees difference is??

Can someone explain exactly what the problem is with the Glock grip angle, or is it a thinly veiled excuse to not like a pistol?

IMG_20191029_203815280 - Edited (1).jpg

IMG_20191029_204002654.jpg
 
Grip angle, grip circumference, grip shape, etc. all come into play when it comes to proper fit and usage. I don't like the Glock grip angle either. I very much notice the difference between it an my 1911s. Like fxvr5, the natural point of the Glock is high for me as well.

I actually like Glocks as well. I think they are an outstanding gun. They just aren't for me.

http://progunleaders.org/Grip/
 
Sounds like someone is a little glocky. Probably need a nap.

Of course grip angle matters. And hand fit. And bore axis height. Don't worry, nobody but Bobby O'Rourke, Lizzie Warren, Bernie Sanders...etc., are trying to take your Glock away. If you like your Glock, you can keep your Glock...
 
DocRock said:
Sounds like someone is a little glocky. Probably need a nap.
Click to expand...

I've posted photos of two very popular pistols. One that gun folks say has a grip angle that offends them, and one that those same people say is superior in ergonomics and fits them much better.

Looking at the photos, there is pretty much no difference in the "grip angle".

So, I am hypothesizing that there actually is no real difference and people are just making stuff up to be offended about.

Your response pretty much supports my theory that some people just like to make up stuff so they can sound smarter.

Just admit that you have no idea what the grip angle thing is about and are just repeating crap you read on the internet and are using it to try and justify not liking how a certain pistol feels.

Sure, some people prefer how other pistols feel and point for them. Picking up different guns in the LGS, I have ones that just feel better. There is nothing wrong with liking a pistol over another one based on "feeling".

I just find the whole "grip angle" argument to be complete BS, as illustrated above.
 
Grip angle is definitely a thing, and different guns do have different grip angles.

Some people like a particular grip angle because they have become accustomed to it after long years of working with a particular grip angle. Some folks like a particular grip angle because they shopped around until they found what worked best for them.
Some folks like a particular grip angle because it's all they have experience with.
It's also common for all of these types to get confused about what type they really are and to think they fit into one of the other groups.

I happen to like the Glock/Walther PPK/Kahr P9 grip angle. All three of those guns point the same for me although I wouldn't have grouped them together just by looking at them.
 
Trey Veston said:
I've posted photos of two very popular pistols. One that gun folks say has a grip angle that offends them, and one that those same people say is superior in ergonomics and fits them much better.

Looking at the photos, there is pretty much no difference in the "grip angle".

So, I am hypothesizing that there actually is no real difference and people are just making stuff up to be offended about.

Your response pretty much supports my theory that some people just like to make up stuff so they can sound smarter.

Just admit that you have no idea what the grip angle thing is about and are just repeating crap you read on the internet and are using it to try and justify not liking how a certain pistol feels.

Sure, some people prefer how other pistols feel and point for them. Picking up different guns in the LGS, I have ones that just feel better. There is nothing wrong with liking a pistol over another one based on "feeling".

I just find the whole "grip angle" argument to be complete BS, as illustrated above.
Click to expand...

So, not just glocky. Ill-mannered as well.

I don't like Glocks. I don't like their ubiquity. I don't like Tupperware pistols with bad triggers chambered in the underwhelming 9x19. And I do not like the way the gun fits in my hand, part of which is grip angle.

I don't like Glocks. And, now, I don't like you. So blather unto others.
 
I really hope people realize this thread was created mostly in jest. I just like to poke fun at some of the common themes that "gun people" like to latch onto and tend to get a bit overzealous about. Lots of us like to really get serious about things that really don't make a bit of difference in the real world of self-defense. At the end of the day, getting home safe is all that matters. People have walked away from violent attacks using everything from rocks and chairs to custom built $5k self-defense 1911s.

cadet3 said:
So what are the actual angular differences between various pistols?
Click to expand...

Doing an internet search of actual grip angles results in a plethora of results...

pistol-angles.jpg

SIG-Angles-300x132.png

Different sources claim different grip angles, which to me, means nobody really knows what they are saying and that different people simply like different things. Claiming that the Glock grip angle is different and bad just sounds like more anti-Glock propaganda based on nothing more than personal preferences.

I carried an M9 in the military for years. Before that, I was issued a 1911. I preferred the 1911 because it felt better in my hand and I qualified "expert" with it easier than the "new" Berettas. Did I have any say in what sidearm I had to carry to defend my life with? No. I used what I was given and dealt with it.

Issue me a Glock, or a Sig, or a 1911, and I will become proficient in any of them. Nitpicking over things like bore axis and grip angle seems silly at times. *sigh* But I guess that's what gun forums are for...
 
There is only one gun in the pictures you posted. It’s a Glock. There are some kind of fuzzy images underneath and around the Glock that may resemble something like a Glock but definitely dont exist as long as the Glock also exists in the picture.

:evil:
 
Glocks... they do feel different in my hand than 1911s. I do ALWAYS shoot high with Glocks when point shooting. Glocks produce a condition called "Glock knuckle" for some shooters--they do for me. If Glocks fit your hand, then buy and shoot them-- I don't find them attractive for me though they are utilitarian for most and quite reliable as a group of firearms.
 
Trey Veston said:
I really hope people realize this thread was created mostly in jest. I just like to poke fun at some of the common themes that "gun people" like to latch onto and tend to get a bit overzealous about. Lots of us like to really get serious about things that really don't make a bit of difference in the real world of self-defense. At the end of the day, getting home safe is all that matters. People have walked away from violent attacks using everything from rocks and chairs to custom built $5k self-defense 1911s.



Doing an internet search of actual grip angles results in a plethora of results...

View attachment 868486

View attachment 868487

Different sources claim different grip angles, which to me, means nobody really knows what they are saying and that different people simply like different things. Claiming that the Glock grip angle is different and bad just sounds like more anti-Glock propaganda based on nothing more than personal preferences.

I carried an M9 in the military for years. Before that, I was issued a 1911. I preferred the 1911 because it felt better in my hand and I qualified "expert" with it easier than the "new" Berettas. Did I have any say in what sidearm I had to carry to defend my life with? No. I used what I was given and dealt with it.

Issue me a Glock, or a Sig, or a 1911, and I will become proficient in any of them. Nitpicking over things like bore axis and grip angle seems silly at times. *sigh* But I guess that's what gun forums are for...
Click to expand...

That is it exactly!
One size does not fit all.
 
barnetmill said:
I do not like the grip angle on the 1911 and like that of the glock better. 1911's point low for me. For many people pistol designed reached their final stage in 1911 and everything since has been an insult and sacrilege to the genius of John M. Browning.
Click to expand...

Same for me. I have tried to be a 1911 guy over the years, I did the buy one, shoot it, sell it, dance for about 5-6 years before wising up and just sticking the thing in the back of the safe until the draw of the 1911 heritage, looks, and all the internet praise comes at me again. Then I take it out and shoot it, wash rinse repeat.
 
Trey Veston said:
...

Maybe I'm just not high-speed enough to realize how offensive and awful a couple of degrees difference is??

Can someone explain exactly what the problem is with the Glock grip angle, or is it a thinly veiled excuse to not like a pistol?

View attachment 868479

View attachment 868480
Click to expand...

Trey,

I used to think the same thing...the Glock grip angle was just a bunch of cow patties spoken by Glock Dislikers (you guys know who you are! !). :cuss:

Then, I had a conversation with a reasonable guy who told me to try an experiment.

I held a Glock 19 (unloaded) at my side and looked at a target 15 feet away for enough time to kinda burn the location in my mind. Then, I closed my eyes, and brought the gun up to a shooting stance at where I thought the target was (eyes still closed). When I opened my eyes and checked my sights, the gun was pointed high on the target, maybe 5-6 inches high. I performed this drill a couple times and got similar results.

I repeated this same drill with my daughters XDM 3.9, and my point of aim was lower, actually almost on the target. After a couple similar tries, I tried the G19 again, thinking my mind was compensating, and the Glock was still high.

YMMV!!!

So I became a believer in the difference in grip angles. But then, after thinking about it, I had an epiphany :thumbdown: :thumbup:

1. Few, if any tools in my world fit me perfectly, from hammers and wrenches to power tools and vehicles.
2. I don’t shoot my gun with my eyes closed, and if I ever had to, I’m probably gonna lose anyway.
3. The grip angle is simply another excuse for Glock Dislikers to dislike, because I rarely hear about any other gun’s grip angle being so bad.

Bottom line....I am capable of adjusting my point of aim to hit a target in spite of the grip angle.

I can hear the Dislikers argument now...”why should I have to change the point of aim?” LOL! As if these people only owned guns that magically pointed perfectly at every presentation!

But..to each their own. I am a simple guy. I have more Glock’s than any other flavor of handgun. I like Glock’s for their simplicity, interchangeability, and reliability. Since I can buy the Blue Label guns, I like their prices. I like the fact I can choose from a plethora (“large amount” for you Haters) of accessories to suit my tastes, from simple sights to high speed modifications I can do myself (same reason I like AR’s).

Like a very respected, lifelong 1911 shooter says, “it’s a good pistol...!”



For the record, I changed the word “hate” to “dislike” to avoid offending anyone. Seriously, I’m not trying to hurt any feelings, and I appreciate the standards of THR!
 
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bikerdoc said:
This thread is mildly amusing in a tongue in cheek sort of way.
I dont own any Glocks and I love CZ's and 1911. I dont care if you like them. We all can't be right.:D:evil:. Or can we?.
Click to expand...
Everyone has a different natural point-of-aim. Sure, a body can certainly take the time to align up the sights to overcome their natural needs, and that's how most folk shoot on a square range. The issue that I have with that is that most folk will never know if the gun will shoot where they look when they don't take the time to align the sights. It is also absolutely true that muscle memory *can* be built around either style, but that doesn't mean that it's biomechanically the best solution for a given person, or that under stress the body won't relax to it's natural tendencies. For example - I can shoot a 1911 pretty well when I'm 'on it', but when I'm really tired or distracted or stressed, I will vertically string a shot group lower and lower as I work through the mag.

I typically take new shooters and have them take their strong hand, make a loose fist with their index finger out as a pointer, and repeatedly point at an object on the far wall for, say, 30 seconds. I then put an unloaded / cleared pistol in their hand (usually a 1911 or a Glock) and have them raise the gun quickly and point at the same object without using the sights. That makes their natural biomechanical needs pretty obvious pretty quickly - either the sights are pretty close to aligned, or they're pretty much NOT. If you start with them picking the gun up and immediately aligning the sights, you'll lose the ability to tell if the gun really fits them or not.

I have a wife and four kids who naturally have a 'puncher' grip and need a 1911 style grip angle, while my other two kids (and me) are 'pointer' or 'fencer' grip kinda folk and need a grip angle like a Luger or a Glock. That's just the way that we're built. We can certainly shoot all sorts of different pistols adequately well, but I don't recommend to any of them that they ignore their natural tendencies if they have a choice.

https://blog.springfield-armory.com/does-grip-angle-matter-3-reasons-it-does

https://dailycaller.com/2013/05/21/glocks-grip-angles-and-picking-handguns-for-combat-self-defense/
 
earlthegoat2 said:
There is only one gun in the pictures you posted. It’s a Glock. There are some kind of fuzzy images underneath and around the Glock that may resemble something like a Glock but definitely dont exist as long as the Glock also exists in the picture.

:evil:
Click to expand...

those fuzzy images look like Bigfoot to me, but YMMV

:what:
 
DocRock said:
Sounds like someone is a little glocky. Probably need a nap.

Of course grip angle matters. And hand fit. And bore axis height. ...
Click to expand...

Sure, these things matter to some degree, but unless you are only shooting identified guns that you verified are all the same angle, fit, & axis, you are compensating for some of them.

I’ll go one further..if you have and shoot both revolvers and semiautomatic handguns, you are definitely shooting guns with dissimilar angles, fit, and axis. Glock’s aren’t that different.

hey, you dislike Glocks...I get it. That’s your choice.

But I don’t believe they are so different that you couldn’t shoot them just fine if you had to...
 
Buzznrose said:
if you have and shoot both revolvers and semiautomatic handguns, you are definitely shooting guns with dissimilar angles, fit, and axis. Glock’s aren’t that different.
Click to expand...
Even Glocks don't all point like Glocks; the subcompacts and compacts point modestly differently than the fullsize guns.

Oh, and I have found that most traditional Ruger and S&W and 1873-style revolvers point similarly to a Glock 17, until you start putting Hogues and other such grips on them which make them point more like a 1911. I can take the same revolver (say, a GP100) and make it point very differently by either putting a Hogue on it or by putting the original style grip (OEM or Altamont) on it.
 
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