243 Win vs 6.5 Creedmoor Bullet Ogive

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Did you miss that the line you quoted, in fact the entire post was about the SIX Creedmoor?

And the Winchester is not going to shoot so much flatter than the other two to "get more hits in an actual hunting situation”.
 
mshootnit said:
Please do not lie to everyone constantly about 6.5 Creedmoor. What varmint-error is not telling you is that comparing 243 Win. and 6.5 Creedmoor is only useful if we include the intended purpose. As a point blank coyote or deer rifle a shooter would be better served with a 243. While a long range target shooter will enjoy the increased BC of of the 6.5. Specifically for varmints, a 243 shooting 70 gr Nosler BT will be much flatter than a 6.5, and enable more hits in actual hunting situations while saving on lead and recoil. But please do not tell new shooters that the 6.5 is better for all their needs.
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I do think it is a better mouse trap I can shoot 85 grain Sierra hp’s or 95 grain Vmaxes for varmints for deer I can shoot 100 120 125 127 129 130 140 143 grain bullets Nosler Sierra Hornady Barnes All make “hunting” bullets in those weights and I’ve shot them all they all seem to group just fine and any deer I’ve hit with one doesn’t seem to say “hey that wasn’t a (insert favorite cartridge here),so I won’t die!”

like I keep saying it isn’t just a gimmick it’s the real deal
 
Demi-human said:
Did you miss that the line you quoted, in fact the entire post was about the SIX Creedmoor?

And the Winchester is not going to shoot so much flatter than the other two to "get more hits in an actual hunting situation”.
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Listen if you can't understand basic facts I can't help you. But if there is a chance you are going to get a quick shot on a coyote somewhere between 150 and 300 yds, and you pick a 139 gr. 6.5 Creedmoor over a nice fast 243 load more power to you, and good luck.
 
LoonWulf said:
I apologize for jumping in but I'm getting tired of this revolving argument
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Bingo. After thirteen years or more it gets old.

Like the “New Shooter” hasn’t already ran into some curmudgeon that forgot to tell them new stuff is junk...

mshootnit said:
Listen if you can't understand basic facts
Click to expand...

Like reading comprehension and math?:D
 
horsemen61 said:
I do think it is a better mouse trap I can shoot 85 grain Sierra hp’s or 95 grain Vmaxes for varmints for deer I can shoot 100 120 125 127 129 130 140 143 grain bullets Nosler Sierra Hornady Barnes All make “hunting” bullets in those weights and I’ve shot them all they all seem to group just fine and any deer I’ve hit with one doesn’t seem to say “hey that wasn’t a (insert favorite cartridge here),so I won’t die!”

like I keep saying it isn’t just a gimmick it’s the real deal
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A 243 Win with a 87 gr. Vmax will be faster and have better BC than about the first 3 loads you mentioned. And 6 mm Remington is better yet.
And when did the deer hunting start needing super sleek target bullets to be successful?
I get sick of the paper punching crowd trying to tell us hunters that our 24. Cal 100 gr. bullets are insufficient, when we all know that bullet out of a 243 or 6mm has been proven to hit right where you aim, until the bullet runs well below the 1000 ft lb threshold out there at 375 yds.
Is that it, you want me to get rid of my 100 gr. loads to get a eld-X so I can go out to 450 yds ? In the world I live and hunt in, thats a solution in search of a problem.
 
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And for our, viewing pleasure...

Poorly Formatted Lists of Numbers!

That’s right! By Cherry Picking only numbers you feel are important, you too can win friends and influence humans! All while losing only the very smallest of face...

Oops, did I jump the gun? Wait for it...
 
Guys...the difference in inches at 200, 250, and 300 yards with a 100 yard zero or a 200 yard zero is not going to be that much different, whether you are talking 6 Creed, 243 Win, 6 Remm, or the 6.5 Creed with same barrel lengths and similar bullet weights.
Quick shots on coyotes are likely to be a holdover from a less than steady rest, which makes it even...:D
Shoot what you like, and let others enjoy what they like:thumbup:
 
Demi-human said:
Bingo. After thirteen years or more it gets old.

Like the “New Shooter” hasn’t already ran into some curmudgeon that forgot to tell them new stuff is junk...



Like reading comprehension and math?:D
Click to expand...
How about simply being polite?:D
 
mshootnit said:
A 243 Win with a 87 gr. Vmax will be faster and have better BC than about the first 3 loads you mentioned. And 6 mm Remington is better yet.
And when did the deer hunting start needing super sleek target bullets to be successful?
I get sick of the paper punching crowd trying to tell us hunters that our 24. Cal 100 gr. bullets are insufficient, when we all know that bullet out of a 243 or 6mm has been proven to hit right where you aim, until the bullet runs well below the 1000 ft lb threshold out there at 375 yds.
Is that it, you want me to get rid of my 100 gr. loads to get a eld-X so I can go out to 450 yds ? In the world I live and hunt in, thats a solution in search of a problem.
Click to expand...

And what has any of this to do with changing the throat on a chamber?


mshootnit said:
How about simply being polite?:D
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My heart is not heavy...

mshootnit said:
Listen if you can't understand basic facts I can't help you.
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mshootnit said:
What varmint-error is not telling you
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6.5 Creedmoor is a nice tame little round.
But for hunting applications it just doesn't surpass some really nice old chamberings.
But paper punchers, new shooters, and rifle makers love it.
But just don't come out and call 270 shooters and 243 Win or 6mm Shooters liars because we aren't lying when we say those old rifles can really hold their own on the ranch, in the plains. No joke.
 
Demi-human said:
And what has any of this to do with changing the throat on a chamber?


My heart is not heavy...
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Varmint-error
April17, 2019: to mshootnit:

"Nobody is asking you to get rid of your old rifle. But please don’t lie to new rifle buyers and try to convince them a 270win is a better choice for their task."
 
mshootnit said:
6.5 Creedmoor is a nice tame little round.
But for hunting applications it just doesn't surpass some really nice old chamberings.
But paper punchers, new shooters, and rifle makers love it.
But just don't come out and call 270 shooters and 243 Win or 6mm Shooters liars because we aren't lying when we say those old rifles can really hold their own on the ranch, in the plains. No joke.
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As someone who takes a quick shot on coyotes (and smaller targets I'll add free of charge) on the plains, the ability to buck wind (on the plains) with a long bullet is NOT to go unnoticed, until the 6 creed came along I was willing to traverse the long rabbit hole to make the .243 into what I need for this exact role. And just to be sure we're clear, my coyotes are not always so obliging to stay between 150-300 yards, especially when thinning down the whole pack. The .224 Valk is catching on because we NEED a fast twist .22-250, the creeds are catching on for similar reasons. That does not mean the .243 is suddenly useless, I'll wager that without looking, when I stick out my hand, I'll hit at least 1 or 2, and when I actually look I'll find more, but there's no denying a more efficient design. This does not mean death to the .243, but history shows us that efficiency equals survival, if rifle makers would allow for the .243 to fulfill it's entire potential without me having to pay extra for all the customizations it would be nice, sadly when these barrels are burnt out, I'll likely replace them with the 6creed to eke out the performance I desire.
 
Looks like someone’s had a few this evening and pulling out the Rolodex.

Asking someone not to lie isn’t the same as calling them a liar, and I won’t apologize for the fact you self-identified because you can’t imagine a world where not everyone agrees with your love of the 270win.

But so pleasantly for me, you’re enduring pontification in this thread was built upon words I never typed. You extolled the superiority of a 243win over a 6.5 creed, when I never referenced the 6.5 at all, but rather only referenced - multiple times - the fact the 6 creed and a custom barreled 243win are effectively identical in the field. Such, your chest thumping and vengeful diatribe here missed whatever imagined target you felt you had.

mshootnit said:
Please do not lie to everyone constantly about 6.5 Creedmoor.
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I’m happy to oblige, because I didn’t say anything about 6.5 creedmoor in this thread.

Varminterror said:
Ditto to all those explaining the 6 Creedmoor does in factory form what the 243win can only do with custom barrels and custom reamer prints.
Click to expand...

I did, however, explicate the shooting I have done with 243win and AI, and the modifications spent to build upon the inherent capabilities of the round, and how much I enjoyed all of it - and further that I enjoy a new factory version of what I used to spend money creating is ready to go on the shelf of every gunshop today.

Blathering on about 139 grain ballistic coefficients and low velocities trying to put words into my mouth to continue your self-victimizing pity party ain’t my bag to carry, man. If I apologized to everyone in the world for inadvertently stepping a little too hard on their toes, hell, I’d die before I was done. You can carry a scar and let me live rent free between your ears if you like, but I’ll be honest, I had completely forgotten all about that post and who you were. Life’s too short. I can appreciate that when you see my name, you see red, and I’m sure you expected I was attacking your beloved 243win as you felt I had slighted your 270win before - so you started blindly throwing shots without actually reading my post(s).

But hey, you do you, amigo. I wish you health and happiness, in any way you may find them.
 
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Varminterror said:
Looks like someone’s had a few this evening and pulling out the Rolodex.

Asking someone not to lie isn’t the same as calling them a liar, and I won’t apologize for the fact you self-identified because you can’t imagine a world where not everyone agrees with your love of the 270win.

But so pleasantly for me, you’re enduring pontification in this thread was built upon words I never typed. You extolled the superiority of a 243win over a 6.5 creed, when I never referenced the 6.5 at all, but rather only referenced - multiple times - the fact the 6 creed and a custom barreled 243win are effectively identical in the field. Such, your chest thumping and vengeful diatribe here missed whatever imagined target you felt you had.



I’m happy to oblige, because I didn’t say anything about 6.5 creedmoor in this thread.



I did, however, explicate the shooting I have done with 243win and AI, and the modifications spent to build upon the inherent capabilities of the round, and how much I enjoyed all of it - and further that I enjoy a new factory version of what I used to spend money creating is ready to go on the shelf of every gunshop today.

Blathering on about 139 grain ballistic coefficients and low velocities trying to put words into my mouth to continue your self-victimizing pity party ain’t my bag to carry, man. If I apologized to everyone in the world for inadvertently stepping a little too hard on their toes, hell, I’d die before I was done. You can carry a scar and let me live rent free between your ears if you like, but I’ll be honest, I had completely forgotten all about that post and who you were. Life’s too short. I can appreciate that when you see my name, you see red, and I’m sure you expected I was attacking your beloved 243win as you felt I had slighted your 270win before - so you started blindly throwing shots without actually reading my post(s).

But hey, you do you, amigo. I wish you health and happiness, in any way you may find them.
Click to expand...
I am sure you did forget, when your post count is so high per day, kind of hard to keep track of what you've said.
But what I had said was that if you compare Nosler published data for hunting to 425 yds. The 270 Win more than holds its own against the 6.5 Creedmoor. That is ALL I said. And you came out of someplace and accused me of lying to new shooters and saying that 270 was better for them. WHERE DID I SAY THAT in that post. SHOW ME.
 
Varminterror said:
View attachment 868488

105 Hybrid 6mm creedmoor living happily next to an 87 Vmax 243 Winchester load... fully accepting one is better suited for different tasks than the other.
Click to expand...
That might be the first time in recorded history that 6, 6.5 insert whatever Creedmooorre fan acquiesced to the superlative utility of any pre-existing cartridge.
Congrats Varmint-error! baby steps
 
Asking someone not to lie isn’t the same as calling them a liar...


Yes it is buddy.
 
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horsey300 said:
As someone who takes a quick shot on coyotes (and smaller targets I'll add free of charge) on the plains, the ability to buck wind (on the plains) with a long bullet is NOT to go unnoticed, until the 6 creed came along I was willing to traverse the long rabbit hole to make the .243 into what I need for this exact role. And just to be sure we're clear, my coyotes are not always so obliging to stay between 150-300 yards, especially when thinning down the whole pack. The .224 Valk is catching on because we NEED a fast twist .22-250, the creeds are catching on for similar reasons. That does not mean the .243 is suddenly useless, I'll wager that without looking, when I stick out my hand, I'll hit at least 1 or 2, and when I actually look I'll find more, but there's no denying a more efficient design. This does not mean death to the .243, but history shows us that efficiency equals survival, if rifle makers would allow for the .243 to fulfill it's entire potential without me having to pay extra for all the customizations it would be nice, sadly when these barrels are burnt out, I'll likely replace them with the 6creed to eke out the performance I desire.
Click to expand...
And if you are gaining BC in that little case you are losing some speed. But in reality you wont notice much. A skinned coyote is pretty thin to to bottom, so arc matters. OTOH I took a running coyote at 235 yds with a 60 gr. 223 so whatever floats your boat. I just don't like to go down in speed.
 
mshootnit said:
And if you are gaining BC in that little case you are losing some speed. But in reality you wont notice much. A skinned coyote is pretty thin to to bottom, so arc matters. OTOH I took a running coyote at 235 yds with a 60 gr. 223 so whatever floats your boat. I just don't like to go down in speed.
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You ought to compare 6 creed 60 great loads to the .243 60 gr then....... launching a 108 eldm at 3000 doesn't lose enough up front to counteract what I gain at 5-900. Now if I were to lay my hands on an 8 twist 6-284.......
Bottom line is, efficient design of case, projectile, barrel, and propellants does ultimately mean that we can enjoy improved performance on any front with less need to spend money on customized equipment.
 
Walkalong said:
This is true of course.

No dog in the hunt, but as posters have said, the 6.5 Creed did the work for you.
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Yes, the 6.5 Creed has worked good for me.
The last 2 of 3 mule deer was killed with a 6.5 Creed (Sitting shot XP-100/142 LR AB and a Double kneeling Customized Old School Dominator/140 A-Max).
Both were close shots under 300 yards, but I am comfortable shooting further
h2845wMl.jpg
KC1VQOml.jpg
 
horsey300 said:
You ought to compare 6 creed 60 great loads to the .243 60 gr then....... launching a 108 eldm at 3000 doesn't lose enough up front to counteract what I gain at 5-900. Now if I were to lay my hands on an 8 twist 6-284.......
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Did someone say 6-284???:thumbup:
Prairie dog at 1590 yards in less than 10 shots...115 D-Tacs:D
My next 6-28 XP-100 will have a Proof Research barrel on it.
NmxOkKXl.jpg
 
Not sure this adds anything to the conversation but I am going to brag a touch anyway.

N3xWgZ4.jpg

This was a five-shot group shot at 200 yards. That's a .38 MOA 5-shot group. I have shot quite a few sub MOA groups and 100 yards and a decent number of sub 0.5 MOA groups too but this group is a personal best for me. I shot it with factory Barnes Precision Match 112gr OTM-BT 6mm Creedmoor ammunition from a factory Remington 700 with a 5R 20-inch barrel. Published muzzle velocity for this ammunition 2960 fps and I got a measure 2881 fps (5-shot average SD 13.8 fps) from my particular gun. I used Barnes Doppler Radar data and their estimated BC to work a drop table for my gun out to 1200 yards and was getting hits on 2 MOA steel targets out to 1000 yards with the setup fairly easily and I do not consider myself a long range shooter. Before this experience I had never shot beyond 600 yards and that was 20+ years ago at Service Rifle Matches.
 
mcb said:
Not sure this adds anything to the conversation but I am going to brag a touch anyway.

View attachment 868495

This was a five-shot group shot at 200 yards. That's a .38 MOA 5-shot group. I have shot quite a few sub MOA groups and 100 yards and a decent number of sub 0.5 MOA groups too but this group is a personal best for me. I shot it with factory Barnes Precision Match 112gr OTM-BT 6mm Creedmoor ammunition from a factory Remington 700 with a 5R 20-inch barrel. Published muzzle velocity for this ammunition 2960 fps and I got a measure 2881 fps (5-shot average SD 13.8 fps) from my particular gun. I used Barnes Doppler Radar data and their estimated BC to work a drop table for my gun out to 1200 yards and was getting hits on 2 MOA steel targets out to 1000 yards with the setup fairly easily and I do not consider myself a long range shooter. Before this experience I had never shot beyond 600 yards and that was 20+ years ago at Service Rifle Matches.
Click to expand...

Excellent Shooting!
 
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