Depends on which platform you prefer. Power wise the .45 Colt can be loaded to be very good for hunting pretty much anything. The 357 Mag is fine for social work and can even pull double duty as a deer gun. The reason I mention platform is that the GP100 has a much better trigger than the Redhawk does, plus it's smaller. The trigger system in the Redhawk is bad enough have turned me off to them, however the Super Redhawk has the same trigger system as the GP100 and you can get a 5" 454 Toklat or the smaller 2.5" Alaskan. You don't have to run 454, you could put .45 Colt in it, but always have the option for 454 if "needed", but there's not much a properly loaded .45 Colt can't do.
.357 Magnum vs .45 Colt
- Thread starter Mr. Mosin
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Three rounds of properly loaded .45Colt is better than 100rds of ANY .357 round. Because if you don't make the first 1-3 shots count, the rest doesn't matter. This is what I try to tell the 10mm who go on and on about magazine capacity.
And there are those of us who feel the same way about the DA trigger stroke. When you shoot single actions 99% of the time, cocking the hammer is as second nature as flicking the safety off on a 1911 is for an IPSC shooter.
mcb
Member
I do running reloads all the time at USPSA/IDPA matches using moonclips or speedloaders. I may or may not be able to do it with a bear chasing me through the woods but I am sure going to be trying, hard.
It's been a few years since I took the old Go-Pro with me to a USPSA or IDPA match so this is your truly from a few years ago at my old clubs USPSA match. First stage has a fairly fast lateral move with a reload. On big field stages with lots of wall and ports and movement if my total time in seconds is less than the number of rounds fired I usually have a decent score on the stage (assuming I got my hits).
Yup. Same pressure as having a bear-hell bent on your demise. I can shoot a cylinder full of .454 (300 grain bullets at 1,600 fps) from my FA 83 in under 3 seconds and I’m under no illusion I can get all those shots off on a bear coming for me. Me thinks you underestimate bear...
mcb
Member
Being a relatively type A personality the time pressure of competition is about the highest pressure I have found to put on myself and my shooting, short of the two way range. I don't underestimate or over estimate the bear since I have zero experience with bear. I am confident that I can, on the move, draw and shoot quickly, get good hits, and keep moving and reloading until I have saved myself of died trying; independent of what the bear is or is not capable of. In that situation its all you can do.
mcb
Member
I have lived through a few life threatening events (non-bruin related) in my life and like I said the time pressure of competition is the close I have found for me personally, as it relates to firearms. In the video the first gun (625) is at a 172 power factor the second gun (627) was at 140 power factor. My 44 Mag produces a 325 power factor and it does slow my splits down a bit but not my reloads. I can get close to .2 splits with the 627 but with the 44 I am might get under .4 on close targets. The 44 Mag being almost as fat the the 45 is fairly forgiving on the reloads compared to all those little skinny 357 chambers.
Zaydok Allen
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To the original question, I’d go with a 45 Colt Redhawk. The OP intends to load his own which makes for a very versatile setup. Lighter loads for home defense, warmer loads for critters. The 45’s just going to cover more bases.
Just a few years ago I would have said 357, but if a bigger gun is tolerable there’s no way I wouldn’t choose a big bore over a small bore anymore.
Just a few years ago I would have said 357, but if a bigger gun is tolerable there’s no way I wouldn’t choose a big bore over a small bore anymore.
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Charlie Martinez
Member
I guess the choice depends on where "the woods" are located.
In my neck of "the woods" chances are that the most dangerous critter is two legged with an extremely long shot possibility of a hungry cougar. The 357 is more than enough for either one even if loaded with hot 38 Special rounds.
But if you're wandering around in places where you can run into an ill-tempered grizzly the 45 LColt/ACP would be my choice.because hot loaded 45 LColt with adequate bullets is better than 357 Magnum for the big bears.
In my neck of "the woods" chances are that the most dangerous critter is two legged with an extremely long shot possibility of a hungry cougar. The 357 is more than enough for either one even if loaded with hot 38 Special rounds.
But if you're wandering around in places where you can run into an ill-tempered grizzly the 45 LColt/ACP would be my choice.because hot loaded 45 LColt with adequate bullets is better than 357 Magnum for the big bears.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
IMHO, it is folly to even consider that you'll be able to do a reload in the middle of a bear encounter. Good or bad, it'll be over with quick. Every shot needs to count.
To the OP, on the milder side, you'll get a lot more out of the .45Colt with mild to moderate loads than the heaviest possible out of the .357 and it won't make your ears bleed in the process. Much more pleasant experience all the way around. I like the Hunters Supply 275gr WFN or virtually any 250-260gr SWC over 9.0gr Unique for around 900fps for woods loafin', when bears are not to be encountered. If bears of the brown persuasion are a possibility, I want a 335-360gr at at least 1000fps, preferably more. With cast bullets, you gain more from bullet weight than velocity but the Redhawk gives you the option of slinging them fast. The .45 just covers more bases with less foolishness.
To the OP, on the milder side, you'll get a lot more out of the .45Colt with mild to moderate loads than the heaviest possible out of the .357 and it won't make your ears bleed in the process. Much more pleasant experience all the way around. I like the Hunters Supply 275gr WFN or virtually any 250-260gr SWC over 9.0gr Unique for around 900fps for woods loafin', when bears are not to be encountered. If bears of the brown persuasion are a possibility, I want a 335-360gr at at least 1000fps, preferably more. With cast bullets, you gain more from bullet weight than velocity but the Redhawk gives you the option of slinging them fast. The .45 just covers more bases with less foolishness.
John Joseph
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Just for clarification, are you guys talking about .45 Auto, or .45 Colt?
Zaydok Allen
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Colt
Real heavy recoil changes the entire dynamic. I don’t think those “power” levels are comparable to a top end .454, .475, .500 - fill in the blank. I also maintain my position that punching paper in a timed event doesn’t compare to the stress from a threat on your life. Night and day in fact.
mcb
Member
Hits with my moderate 44 Mag (240gr @ 1350) is better than misses with top end 454, 475, 500. I know my limits and stay within them. I can shoot and reload my 44 Mag (M29) and do so in a manner almost as fast as I demonstration above with 625/627. I also agree that practical pistol sports are NOT the same as real life life and death events but it's as close as I have been able to find that did not involve life and death. It gets me lots of good trigger on my N-frames, reloads, and gun manipulation time and I am comfortable that my equipment works and my ability to run my equipment fast and accurate.
25-20 WCF
Member
Yet another example of why we should use the term “.45 Long Colt”.
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That will depend on where you hit them and with what. This discussion has to presuppose good shot placement no matter the firearm as you are likely only getting one. And with the incorrect bullet loaded to “moderate” levels in .44, it may not matter how many shots you get off. Many variables here.
Tinman357
Member
In regards to MCB's skills... a few pointed out that a grizz attack is going to be very diffrent than the range video he posted.
Yes. It will be. But. I can just about promise that MCB is going to have a much better chance than someone who doesn't train like that. And, how do you train for a bear attack anyway?
Other than the "surprise" element, that type of shooting seems as good as any, better than most. Shooting on the move, fast, while hitting a both stationary targets and moving targets, reloading on the move.
Honestly, in my not-experianced-with-bears opinion, it looks like pretty good training to me.
Maybe if he added some screaming like a 3yr old and some judicious underwear soiling.
That would add a bit more realism.
Looks to cover most situations I would find myself in. About the only way to make that training any more realistic is to go out in known grizz country wearing a meat suit and cuddle every cub you can find. Momma will be along shortly for the timed training part.
I doubt those classes would fill up quickly
And the fees would have to be non refundable.
All kidding aside. MCB, that is some good shooting.
Yes. It will be. But. I can just about promise that MCB is going to have a much better chance than someone who doesn't train like that. And, how do you train for a bear attack anyway?
Other than the "surprise" element, that type of shooting seems as good as any, better than most. Shooting on the move, fast, while hitting a both stationary targets and moving targets, reloading on the move.
Honestly, in my not-experianced-with-bears opinion, it looks like pretty good training to me.
Maybe if he added some screaming like a 3yr old and some judicious underwear soiling.
That would add a bit more realism.Looks to cover most situations I would find myself in. About the only way to make that training any more realistic is to go out in known grizz country wearing a meat suit and cuddle every cub you can find. Momma will be along shortly for the timed training part.
I doubt those classes would fill up quickly
And the fees would have to be non refundable.All kidding aside. MCB, that is some good shooting.
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ontarget
Member
deleted. Wrong button.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
What is "Long" going to accomplish that "Colt" and/or "ACP" wouldn't???
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
mcb
Member
Sure many many variables in such a messy situation, an a touch of luck and fairy-dust too, (bruins bring out the strange on forums) but at the crux of our tangential discussion here is simply that given my experience I would be using a double action revolver over a single action revolver and you would, I assume, be selecting the opposite. You see advantages to the single action I see advantages to the double action. I guarantee I personally would be far worst prepare carrying at single action despite any advantage it might potentially offer simply due to my extensive time training/using double action revolvers. If I were to step up into the big bore revolvers (460, 500) it would be simple enough with an X-frame. Having shot an X-frame I know I am personally better off staying with my N-frames. Given the number of bear attacks stopped with 10mm, 357 Mag, 45 ACP, 9mm and even a few with 380 ACP I think my 44 Mag will serve me sufficiently. If I honestly thought my 44 Mag would not be sufficient due to unusually up-armored bruin, I would simply step up to a long gun. In my neck of the woods though I still carry a good old model 10 in 38 special.
And yet I put video evidence of me reloading while running...
So coming back on topic if I was in the OP position is would be deciding between double action revolver chambered in 45 Colt or 357 Magnum. Giving my dislike of 357 Magnum I would choose a 45 Colt. Given my preferences for S&W it would probably be a full under lug 25/625 in 45 Colt. YMMV
I see advantages to being able to shoot heavy calibers better suited to animal defense than mid-level .44 Mag because I have actually faced dangerous animals with handguns. This pretty much precludes DA shooting. There will be no six-shots and a reload I can assure you and that is the gist of the discussion. Never mind.
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MidRoad
Member
Well to get the thread back on track, did OP come to a decision? Or maybe go handle some real examples of the ones he's interested in? I'll reiterate that I REALLY recommend handling a redhawk and trying it's double action pull before buying it. Very nice gun but that trigger reach is longgggg
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