.357 Magnum vs .45 Colt

A 25 or 625 in 45 Colt would have probably the best double action trigger available in 45 Colt, though it will not take the same abuse that the Redhawk will.

In my case the load I mentioned earlier isn't a lot more powerful than my standard .45 Colt target load, I carry the mountain gun while Grouse hunting with a 20ga. shotgun, not something you would use for defense against a bear, unless you really wanted to piss it off.
I agree with everyone who has said you will never have to worry about a reload but I feel a less powerful load with a big bullet at 1000/950fps.
might provide a chance for a 2nd or 3rd shot. Number 2 or 3 will probably be taken with your head in it's mouth.

Mr. Mosin said:

Scratch that. Buddy has a *Super* Redhawk in .44 Mag, w/ a 7.5 inch barrel.

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The super redhawk uses the same grip as the gp100. There are alot of options available for the gp100/Super redhawk, so it's easy to find a grip that fits your hand. The regular redhawk on the other hand is much more limited grip with options because of the frame . Here's some images of the differences. Again I agree with others the 45 colt is a better caliber. But make sure you actually like how a redhawk feels. The gp100/super redhawk are much more ergonomic and tend to have better triggers due to designs. I got my redhawk for a steel on the broker , didn't like how it felt and sent it down the road. My gp100 on the other hand is much more comfortable to handle and ain't going anywhere.

Super redhawk/gp100


Redhawk

Mr. Mosin said:

Ah. The Redhawk is styled along the lines of S&W and Colt (shaped grip frames), while the GP100 is the peg frame ?

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Correct.

I own both, shoot both 3”&6” GP .357 and Redhawk 45 ACP/45 Colt. Deer are light skinned and not big boned and .357 works just fine. Moose, Brown bear not so much. Placement and penetration are essential in both caliber. Recoil is subjective to a point but a hot loaded (eg) 325 grain @1300fps @ muzzle is an attention getter from the Redhawk (with practice a tolerance can be achieved) but would be my go to weapon against larger quarry. I CC both. Home defense is either 38 Special+P or 45 Colt PDX or Silvertips. Hope this helps
PS The round butt on that Redhawk allows my shorter fingers easy access to trigger and recoil with the aforementioned defensive rounds equates (in my opinion) to light.357’s in the GP100.

i have a 45lc and a 357 revolver, each in the form of a ruger blackhawk convertible (45lc/acp and 357/38/9mm). i enjoy the feel of shooting the 45lc way more than 357, but if i were forced to choose only one it would be the 357/38/9mm for the sake of a wide variety of ammo choices that are easier to find and cheaper to buy (i don’t reload). in any case, i’m faster and more accurate when shooting any revolver single action. plus, ruger blackhawks are built like brick outhouses and scream “outdoors.”

25-20 WCF said:

Yet another example of why we should use the term “.45 Long Colt”.

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No, shooters should be educated about the proper name of cartridges.

45 Long Colt is what the guy behind the counter at the local gun store asks you when he is not familiar with the proper name of the cartridge. You asked for 45 Colt, he asked 'do you mean 45 Long Colt?' because he wants to make sure you don't want 45 ACP.

These cartridges are all over 100 years old.






These rounds are brand new.






This is the official SAAMI drawing of the cartridge and chamber. Notice the name in the upper right corner.






If you want 45 Schofield, you ask for 45 Schofield.






Just because some companies choose to label their boxes 45 Long Colt does not mean it is correct.

If I worked selling ammunition I might call it "45 long colt" also. Both the well-versed and the ignorant would understand what I meant. I guess I could call it "45 (long) colt" in my head, just to save my self-respect.

Brown/grizzly bears can charge at speeds of up to 35 mph. Olympic-class sprinters can do almost 28. There ain't gonna be a lot of shots fired, and certainly no reloads.

Tallball said:

Brown/grizzly bears can charge at speeds of up to 35 mph. Olympic-class sprinters can do almost 28. There ain't gonna be a lot of shots fired, and certainly no reloads.

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I guess that means that even an overweight, middle-aged grizzly that smokes two packs a day can probably get to you before you can dig out your speedloader or maybe even empty your first cylinder full. Better make the first shot or two count...

Tallball said:

If I worked selling ammunition I might call it "45 long colt" also. Both the well-versed and the ignorant would understand what I meant. I guess I could call it "45 (long) colt" in my head, just to save my self-respect.

Brown/grizzly bears can charge at speeds of up to 35 mph. Olympic-class sprinters can do almost 28. There ain't gonna be a lot of shots fired, and certainly no reloads.

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Yet we read lots of account of false charges, were the bear charges pulls up short possibly due to a warning shot, bear spray, or even being shot, they retreat, and return, etc. Some of these bear attacks are drawn out affairs not simply a single determined charge. The double action revolver give you the option of a fast reload while on the move if the situation allows, the single action revolver does not.

mcb said:

Yet we read lots of account of false charges, were the bear charges pulls up short possibly due to a warning shot, bear spray, or even being shot, they retreat, and return, etc. Some of these bear attacks are drawn out affairs not simply a single determined charge. The double action revolver give you the option of a fast reload while on the move if the situation allows, the single action revolver does not.

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Keep telling yourself that. I can top off easily as well. But you will not have time for a reload and you will not be shooting anything with meaningful recoil double-action. Again, with a little practice you can rattle off a cylinder in a single-action revolver very fast, but you likely won’t have the opportunity.

MaxP said:

Keep telling yourself that. I can top off easily as well. But you will not have time for a reload and you will not be shooting anything with meaningful recoil double-action. Again, with a little practice you can rattle off a cylinder in a single-action revolver very fast, but you likely won’t have the opportunity.

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What does recoil have to do with double-action? I can't remember the last time I thumbed back one of my N-frames. Even 44 Mag I shoot double-action, all the time. The last two deer I shot were both double-action. Unless I am shooting over a rest I am more accurate double action than single action. Last week I was ringing a 18"x24" inch plate at 100 yards double-action. The few time I have shot a buddies X-frame it was double action, the recoil was no worst for the decision. What does double-action or single-action have to do with absorbing the recoil?

mcb said:

What does recoil have to do with double-action? I can't remember the last time I thumbed back one of my N-frames. Even 44 Mag I shoot double-action, all the time. The last two deer I shot were both double-action. Unless I am shooting over a rest I am more accurate double action than single action. Last week I was ringing a 18"x24" inch plate at 100 yards double-action. The few time I have shot a buddies X-frame it was double action, the recoil was no worst for the decision. What does double-action or single-action have to do with absorbing the recoil?

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I don't believe recoil difference is the issue (there is none). What they are saying is that the extremely heavy recoil (for both SA & DA) in the big handgun calibers does not give a DA revolver any advantage in terms of faster followup shots because the recovery time is so long. Therefore a SA revolver can be shot as quickly as a DA revolver. That leaves faster reloading as the only advantage a DA has over the SA. However taking into consideration the speed at which a bear charges some believe that if the stop doesn't happen during the first 6 shots the animal will be on you before you can reload either DA or SA. Therefore the conclusion is that for bear protection a SA is equal to DA.

mcb said:

What does recoil have to do with double-action? I can't remember the last time I thumbed back one of my N-frames. Even 44 Mag I shoot double-action, all the time. The last two deer I shot were both double-action. Unless I am shooting over a rest I am more accurate double action than single action. Last week I was ringing a 18"x24" inch plate at 100 yards double-action. The few time I have shot a buddies X-frame it was double action, the recoil was no worst for the decision. What does double-action or single-action have to do with absorbing the recoil?

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The loads you're shooting through your 29 aren't heavy. They're not recoiling hard - I know this is a relative term for most. I had a custom Super Redhawk in .500 Linebaugh that weighed just under my 6 1/2-inch Model 29 by a number of ounces. Keep in mind I'm pretty tolerant of recoil, but no one I know (experienced handgun hunters all) was able to shoot it DA appreciably fast. The SA, on the other hand really lends itself to fast shooting as you hammer back as it is coming out of recoil. Try it, you might be surprised. I have had many of both over the course of my life and I didn't derive at my position on this issue just because I like one more than the other. Animal attacks happen really quickly and violently. There will not be time for any quick reload. It's just NOT the same as punching paper. Practice is good, in most forms, but the dissimilarity in the pressure is marked.

X-frames are exceedingly heavy and have an effective muzzle brake. All adds up to mitigate recoil considerably.

You need to get out on a black bear hunt with dogs so you can see how unbelievably agile and fast bears are (and I'm not even talking brown bear). It takes a split second for things to get western. It would be good even if you simply observe as black bear with a pack of dogs on its heals is one agitated animal that is very unpredictable.

Charlie Martinez said:

I don't believe recoil difference is the issue (there is none). What they are saying is that the extremely heavy recoil (for both SA & DA) in the big handgun calibers does not give a DA revolver any advantage in terms of faster followup shots because the recovery time is so long. Therefore a SA revolver can be shot as quickly as a DA revolver. That leaves faster reloading as the only advantage a DA has over the SA. However taking into consideration the speed at which a bear charges some believe that if the stop doesn't happen during the first 6 shots the animal will be on you before you can reload either DA or SA. Therefore the conclusion is that for bear protection a SA is equal to DA.

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I can accept that for the big bore heavy recoiling revolvers like 454 Casull on up. But there are enough document cases of the bears starting an attack, leaving only to returning to continue an attack, that the reloading advantage is not negated in all bear attacks. I would also argue that 44 Mag and 45 Colt loaded to comparable pressure/power-levels is sufficient for an overwhelming majority of bears. Bears are not up-armored like Humvees despite what the internet seems to think and there are lots of accounts of handguns well below 44 Mag/45 Colt power levels being successfully used in defense against even brown and grizzly bears. A shooter that practices can certainly fire a revolver even one at 44mag/45Colt recoil levels faster double action then they can single action.

I personally can shoot my 44 Mag double action faster and more accurately than I can my single action 357 Mag but I like and practice with the double action and don't with my single action so there is that. I will take the guy that practices with his 357 Mag 686 in bear country over the guy the thinks his 500 JRH single-action means he doesn't have too any day of the week and twice on bruin-attack day.

Why do bear threads always turn into this?

mcb said:

I can accept that for the big bore heavy recoiling revolvers like 454 Casull on up. But there are enough document cases of the bears starting an attack, leaving only to returning to continue an attack, that the reloading advantage is not negated in all bear attacks. I would also argue that 44 Mag and 45 Colt loaded to comparable pressure/power-levels is sufficient for an overwhelming majority of bears. Bears are not up-armored like Humvees despite what the internet seems to think and there are lots of accounts of handguns well below 44 Mag/45 Colt power levels being successfully used in defense against even brown and grizzly bears. A shooter that practices can certainly fire a revolver even one at 44mag/45Colt recoil levels faster double action then they can single action.

I personally can shoot my 44 Mag double action faster and more accurately than I can my single action 357 Mag but I like and practice with the double action and don't with my single action so there is that. I will take the guy that practices with his 357 Mag 686 in bear country over the guy the thinks his 500 JRH single-action means he doesn't have too any day of the week and twice on bruin-attack day.

Why to bear threads always turn into this?

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Yep every time bears are brought up threads spiral out of control. Only way to solve his is.....a thunderdome. Two men, one bear. Two men enter one man leave! Or maybe both leave in the belly of the bear?

But ya make a good point about putting rounds in target. If you can't hit crap with them big ol thumpers than your better off with a gun you can handle. A small hole with a chance of saving oneself is better than no hole and supper for a bear.

Anyways looking forward to hearing what the OP decides on.

Charlie Martinez said:

I don't believe recoil difference is the issue (there is none). What they are saying is that the extremely heavy recoil (for both SA & DA) in the big handgun calibers does not give a DA revolver any advantage in terms of faster followup shots because the recovery time is so long. Therefore a SA revolver can be shot as quickly as a DA revolver. That leaves faster reloading as the only advantage a DA has over the SA. However taking into consideration the speed at which a bear charges some believe that if the stop doesn't happen during the first 6 shots the animal will be on you before you can reload either DA or SA. Therefore the conclusion is that for bear protection a SA is equal to DA.

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Exactly!

mcb said:

I can accept that for the big bore heavy recoiling revolvers like 454 Casull on up. But there are enough document cases of the bears starting an attack, leaving only to returning to continue an attack, that the reloading advantage is not negated in all bear attacks. I would also argue that 44 Mag and 45 Colt loaded to comparable pressure/power-levels is sufficient for an overwhelming majority of bears. Bears are not up-armored like Humvees despite what the internet seems to think and there are lots of accounts of handguns well below 44 Mag/45 Colt power levels being successfully used in defense against even brown and grizzly bears. A shooter that practices can certainly fire a revolver even one at 44mag/45Colt recoil levels faster double action then they can single action.

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It is going to hold true for anything heavier than .45ACP or .357. Recoil is the great equalizer.

Yes, the .44Mag and .45Colt properly loaded with the right bullets are sufficient for any bear. No, a 240gr at 1350fps does not constitute "properly loaded". Add 100gr to bullet weight and you're in the right neighborhood.

Yes, a double action is going to be quicker in action for YOU because that is what you are most familiar with. For the average person who has not spent much time trying to master either one, it's also going to hold true. However, do not assume that it is quicker in action in general, or quicker than a single action in the hands of someone who has matched your level of training. The statement that DA's are universally quicker to operate would only come from a dedicated DA shooter who really has little idea how fast an SA can be operated. In the context of heavy loads, it is not even a question as recoil eliminates any advantage the DA might've had in anyone's hands.

mcb said:

I personally can shoot my 44 Mag double action faster and more accurately than I can my single action 357 Mag but I like and practice with the double action and don't with my single action so there is that.

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It should be obvious that an individual is going to be quicker with the platform he's more proficient with.

mcb said:

I will take the guy that practices with his 357 Mag 686 in bear country over the guy the thinks his 500 JRH single-action means he doesn't have too any day of the week and twice on bruin-attack day.

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Why do all discussions of terminal ballistics turn into a shot placement argument? In any discussion of terminal effect, shot placement is a given. So statements that hits with blowguns are better than misses with 20mm Vulcans are really tangential and irrelevant deflections.

Mr. Mosin said:

I believe I've decided (based on cartridge) on the .45 Colt. However, I'm still gonna try to handle both the round butt and square butt Redhawk,and a GP100.

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Nice. Keep an open mind to the 44 special aswell. The 5" halflug blued gp100 or the 3" stainless guns are sweeeeet. Underwood and buffalo bore offer hardcast loads that are 255gr @1000 fps and will have lots of penetration for game. I believe that's the limit forwhat you would safely use in the gp's due to the thin forcing cones. @CraigC can probably chime in on that one. There are some defensive 44 special rounds aswell. It may be a great middle of the road setup for what your looking for. You get a handy gun with Lots of grip options, with a nice big fat round that will penetrate well. 44 special shines if you reload and that 255@1000 fps is tolerable in lighter guns. My Blackhawk weighs 37oz and it manages just fine recoil wise.



Edit to add.

Check out the Smith and Wesson model 69 aswell! 5 shot 44 mag, but if the 44 mag is too much to handle, you can still run hot 44 special in it.