Hypothetically speaking.... (not shtf)

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Tinman357

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Mostly mental musings. But, curious to see what kind of answers come up.

Don't read much into this, keep it simple. Lets say you live in a state that is going to ban semi auto rifles. (No posturing please.)

So semi autos are out of the picture and you still want to be effective in the same situations where you would use an AR or whatever you use. No possibility of parts replacement for several years. So its got to be rugged.

What do you get? If this daydream were a coming reality, lever? Bolt gun? What you say, and why?
 
No legal semiauto? I guess I’d stick with my Federally approved FA.

As a gesture, I don’t guess I have used a semi AR in other situations where I haven’t used other stuff though. Would make 3 gun games pretty boring I suppose.

If I am going to day dream I tend to go for more pleasant things. Softer and don’t require ear protection..,
 
Hard to say, the AR is jack of all trades and master of none imo, so it depends entirely on what I need it to do.

I guess the answer is, a big bore lever action, a 12ga semi auto, a pistol of some flavor or maybe a bolt gun, depending on the situation.
 
Since were talking hypothetically.... A properly sized slide action in 7.62x39/6.5 grendel would be pretty neat....co2 driven pneumatic assist and I bet you could rival the speed of a semi.....

In reality it would simply be multiple firearms, which is what I usually do as I simply dont care for ARs
I really do need to try a Su-16, or the fightlight lower....
 
Well, when outright bans are endorsed by SCOTUS, Mossberg and some other bright boys and girls will offer a lever action with DBM. The AR boys will offer more slide actions, as well as probably some form of legally compliant conversion kit that makes an AR a straight pull, side action bolt gun. And many, many, many people simply will not comply with the ban...
 
Tinman357 said:
Mostly mental musings. But, curious to see what kind of answers come up.

Don't read much into this, keep it simple. Lets say you live in a state that is going to ban semi auto rifles. (No posturing please.)

So semi autos are out of the picture and you still want to be effective in the same situations where you would use an AR or whatever you use. No possibility of parts replacement for several years. So its got to be rugged.

What do you get? If this daydream were a coming reality, lever? Bolt gun? What you say, and why?
Click to expand...
Bolt gun that accepts at least a 5 round mag or a shotgun if that's not an option.
 
jmorris said:
If I am going to day dream I tend to go for more pleasant things. Softer and don’t require ear protection..,
Click to expand...

Unless they bite.:):evil:

I have pump action rifles. Several.

So I guess I'll have to say,

Gatling Gun!
It's not an auto loader and would set perfect on the upstairs landing.

Woe to those below! For these stairs are impassable!
(Oh dang. My truck is on the other side of that wall...)
 
As others have said, needs create a market. It depends how restrictive the rules are. In the UK, slide action guns were lumped together with semi-auto and you can't get one of those unless it is in .22LR (because the common man can have .22LR in semi-auto but no centerfire).
Let's ignore the fact that we can't have guns for self defense (in general).
What they did in the UK and what would probably happen in the US, is other mechanisms would be sold instead. One example is the lever-release AR-pattern rifle.
Here's one in 9mm that I fired here in London. It was made by Southern Gun Company and uses Glock magazines:

upload_2019-11-12_10-28-59.png

Here's another one I fired here in London. A 9mm lever release using IMI Uzi pattern magazines:

upload_2019-11-12_10-31-12.png

And here is another one that has been converted to manual load:

upload_2019-11-12_10-33-1.png

These are made in .223 also.

Have a look at this VZ-58 MARS:

 
Three rifles come to mind:

Rossi Model 92 lever action carbine in .45 Colt.
CZ 527 bolt action carbine in .223.
CZ 527 bolt action carbine in 7.62x39.
 
A bolt gun in a "scout type" set up. I don't adhere to the exact scout rifle concept but like the general idea with some tweaks that I think improve it. I have one each of these, but any compact bolt gun that uses a detachable magazine could work. Either irons or a low powered optic can work.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/26965.html with a 2-7X scope on it and the ability to use 10, 20, and 30 round AR magazines

And if a bit more punch is called for I have this

https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26974.html with a 1-4X scope on it. along with several 3, 5, 6, and 10 round magazines.

Both of these are less expensive and lighter, even with optics, than a lever rifle. They are much faster to reload, more accurate especially at any range beyond 100 yards and hit a lot harder, and are much more rugged and reliable. Ammo, especially 223/5/.56, is much less expensive. And while it is possible to empty the magazine in a random direction faster with a lever action, there is no difference in rate of fire if you throw in the requirement that all of your shots must actually hit the target.

And that is only if you're firing a lever action off hand. From any type of supported position behind cover or prone a bolt gun is FASTER than a lever action for repeat shots. Remember the military had to choose between a bolt and lever action over 100 years ago and the bolt gun won out for all of the above reasons. Lever actions were only a better option in cowboy movies.

I don't see pump rifles as any better. Once again they are only faster if you're not aiming. A bolt gun is just as fast if you have to actually hit the target with each shot. They are still heavier, more expensive, less reliable and slower to operate in any type of supported position or prone. In the real world people don't stand up on their feet in the open and fire at someone who is firing back at them.
 
I was going to suggest a lever gun in 44 magnum. On the other, a 30-30 would be cheaper these days and likely an easier rifle to find. If you want lower recoil, 357 magnum in a lever gun would be effective as well. All would have more than enough range for typical home defense use. They would still need some practice. IMO, anything that requires manual manipulation needs to be practices to be certain you can use it well under stress.

I saw this as an alternative to a shotgun but others have mentioned that.
 
The next logical step for me would be a bolt action in 5.56 to go with the ammo I have on hand. Otherwise it would be a 357 lever gun like a Marlin 1894C.
 
My 1894 Marlins hold 10+1 of 44 and 357. That’s some serious firepower. Just sayin. I also think they would be more likely to go after any centerfire rifle cartridges before they would pistol ammo.
 
earlthegoat2 said:
Remington 7615 is a no brainer. It’s only a matter of time before they re-release it if more and more ban states keep popping up.
Click to expand...

I’ve thought the same thing for a while now. I do wonder if the current management at Remington has enough sense to even consider it, or to even remember they once made a pump gun that accepted AR mags.

jmr40 said:
A bolt gun in a "scout type" set up. I don't adhere to the exact scout rifle concept but like the general idea with some tweaks that I think improve it. I have one each of these, but any compact bolt gun that uses a detachable magazine could work. Either irons or a low powered optic can work.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/26965.html with a 2-7X scope on it and the ability to use 10, 20, and 30 round AR magazines

And if a bit more punch is called for I have this

https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26974.html with a 1-4X scope on it. along with several 3, 5, 6, and 10 round magazines.

Both of these are less expensive and lighter, even with optics, than a lever rifle. They are much faster to reload, more accurate especially at any range beyond 100 yards and hit a lot harder, and are much more rugged and reliable. Ammo, especially 223/5/.56, is much less expensive. And while it is possible to empty the magazine in a random direction faster with a lever action, there is no difference in rate of fire if you throw in the requirement that all of your shots must actually hit the target.

And that is only if you're firing a lever action off hand. From any type of supported position behind cover or prone a bolt gun is FASTER than a lever action for repeat shots. Remember the military had to choose between a bolt and lever action over 100 years ago and the bolt gun won out for all of the above reasons. Lever actions were only a better option in cowboy movies.

I don't see pump rifles as any better. Once again they are only faster if you're not aiming. A bolt gun is just as fast if you have to actually hit the target with each shot. They are still heavier, more expensive, less reliable and slower to operate in any type of supported position or prone. In the real world people don't stand up on their feet in the open and fire at someone who is firing back at them.
Click to expand...

I was always of the assumption the military chose bolt guns because of the large, powerful cartridges they wanted and for their simplicity, not for reasons of ergonomics.

I frequently wonder why someone hadn’t made a lever gun that accepts AR mags, or why they don’t make 10 round mags for the Browning BLR in 223.
 
The bolt action is a neat concept....until your left handed and 99.5% of the options are right handed.

Where there’s a will there’s a way but there are many easier options out there.

Good excuse for a custom job I suppose but so far lever and pump guns have done everything better for me than right handed bolt guns.
 
This is a two part answer for me.

The first answer is I will choose between the remaining legal guns Big Daddy says I can own.

In the spirit of your question though in Pre-AR days the late Jeff Cooper made a case for the lever action 30-30 being a good choice. He liked the Winchester. His position was that the lever action carbine is lightweight, the stock can be easily shortened (both important features for many women), it can be stored with a full magazine and empty chamber standing behind a door for immediate action and it is simple to operate. He felt the 30-30 cartridge was a good urban defense round due it’s range. 150 yards is a not unrealistic in a riot or mob violence.

Of course the 30-30 lever gun is a classic firearm for mid-size game.

While the ammunition capacity is limited the lever gun is easy to reload and 30-30 ammo is generally easily found due to it’s popularity.
 
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jmorris said:
No legal semiauto? I guess I’d stick with my Federally approved FA.
Click to expand...
That's not so far-fetched. Virginia has lots of legal machine guns, registered with the State Police under the Uniform Machine Gun Act. The governor's AWB plan would apply only to semiautomatics, leaving machine guns (including selective-fire AR's) untouched. The only problem is that they would be hampered by having to use only 10-round magazines.
 
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