Hypothetically speaking.... (not shtf)

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A lever would be my first choice, too. Probably in .357.
Or, if I already had the AR, look into other options. I've seen them converted to pump before. If there's a kit for that, there you go. If not, I'd find access to a mill and a lathe and make a conversion. Not a hard design to do that on.
 
Companies that make AR pump conversions are all over the internet.

Just Google AR-15 pump conversions to find a company - or get an inspiration.

They don't look all that complicated.

-And, they work just fine with sub-sonic rounds... .
 

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I never understood the pistol caliber carbine argument. .357 ammo weighs as much or more than a 5.56, and still doesn’t offer true rifle ballistics. And sharing the same ammo with your revolver? So what! You’re just limiting yourself now to one kind of ammo.

The ease of takedown for a lever is no where close to a bolt gun. Bolt guns are stronger and more reliable in almost every way.

I don’t think the durability, or parts availability of the Mauser 98 can be disputed. Whether you have a $5,000 custom, or a cheap sporter, there are literally parts in every country in the world. Broken extractor, no problem!

I can take down my Mauser with no tools and The stripper clip guide makes it fast for reloading, and they’re bombproof. My ideal is a 30-06 Mauser 98
 
Since were talking hypothetically.... A properly sized slide action in 7.62x39/6.5 grendel would be pretty neat....co2 driven pneumatic assist and I bet you could rival the speed of a semi.....
.

I can pump the slide and get back on target with the Remington 760 I got from my father faster than I can work my 30-30. Both slide action and lever action are faster than bolt action for me... although I own several bolt actions and love them. 30-06 is a bit much for self defense though... I like the idea of 7.62x39 better than 30-06. .44 mag seems like it would be a bit more practical for anything within 100 yards. As long as we are making stuff up though I think I would go for the slide action .50ae.

I don't see the co2 assist... but I know you were just thinking outside the box.
 
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I can pump the slide and get back on target with the Remington 760 I got from my father faster than I can work my 30-30. Both slide action and lever action are faster than bolt action for me... although I own several bolt actions and love them. 30-06 is a bit much for self defense though... I like the idea of 7.62x39 better than 30-06. .44 mag seems like it would be a bit more practical for anything withing 100 yards. As long as we are making stuff up though I think I would go for the slide action .50ae.

I don't see the co2 assist... but I know you were just thinking outside the box.

It would be fairly easy to build a pneumatic ram system powered by 12g CO2 cartridges where you only needed to cycle the gun far enough to actuate a 3way. you could literally flick a finger and cycle the gun. With the way an AR is set up you could mount almost, if not all of that, above the barrel.
set it up so that you can easily switch to full length cycling and even if you ran out of co2 or blew a line you could still shoot the gun with the same motion.
If you havent seen one, check out an autococker paintball marker or a pneumatic assist phantom, thats the basic idea it would simply be fitting the components.

Id also love to see a miniaturized 7400/7600 in stuff upto and including the .50 AE....that would be amazingly cool, and would serve this roll well.

Cartridge wise, I think the smaller rifle rounds are more versatile, which is why I suggested a Grendel size cartridge, but within a 100-150yds a PCC would be very effective.
 
Gentlemen, Thank you for all your input. My state very well may ban all semi autos. Looks like the next best thing is a good lever action.

My own thoughts are confirmed. Again, thank you.
 
I never understood the pistol caliber carbine argument. .357 ammo weighs as much or more than a 5.56, and still doesn’t offer true rifle ballistics. And sharing the same ammo with your revolver? So what! You’re just limiting yourself now to one kind of ammo.

The ease of takedown for a lever is no where close to a bolt gun. Bolt guns are stronger and more reliable in almost every way.

I don’t think the durability, or parts availability of the Mauser 98 can be disputed. Whether you have a $5,000 custom, or a cheap sporter, there are literally parts in every country in the world. Broken extractor, no problem!

I can take down my Mauser with no tools and The stripper clip guide makes it fast for reloading, and they’re bombproof. My ideal is a 30-06 Mauser 98


A case of "to each, his own."

Back in the last half of the 19th century, when lever action rifles were first developed by companies like Winchester, and others, they were what today would be called pistol calibers. Rounds like the .44 Henry, the .44-40, .38-40, were all similar and, in fact, they were also used in some revolvers. The tech was young and those levers couldn't handle powerful cartridges. Those were used in Sharps dropping block and Remington rolling block single shot rifles.
Marlin, and later, Winchester (when they went to John Moses Browning designs) eventually developed lever actions that could use the big .45-70 and larger rohnds.
But in the heyday, a rancher could carry a Winchester 1873 and a Colt Peacemaker and both could use the same .44-40 cartridge, making it very convenient.
Today we can do the same thing with a S&W .357 magnum and a Marlin 1894 CB.
You don't always need a .30-'06 bolt action. A Marlin .357 .... Or a Winchester 1873 and a Colt S. A. A. in .45 Colt make fun companions.
And for those into Cowboy Action Shooting .... THEY'RE GREEEEAAAT!:D
 
A case of "to each, his own."

Back in the last half of the 19th century, when lever action rifles were first developed by companies like Winchester, and others, they were what today would be called pistol calibers. Rounds like the .44 Henry, the .44-40, .38-40, were all similar and, in fact, they were also used in some revolvers. The tech was young and those levers couldn't handle powerful cartridges. Those were used in Sharps dropping block and Remington rolling block single shot rifles.
Marlin, and later, Winchester (when they went to John Moses Browning designs) eventually developed lever actions that could use the big .45-70 and larger rohnds.
But in the heyday, a rancher could carry a Winchester 1873 and a Colt Peacemaker and both could use the same .44-40 cartridge, making it very convenient.
Today we can do the same thing with a S&W .357 magnum and a Marlin 1894 CB.
You don't always need a .30-'06 bolt action. A Marlin .357 .... Or a Winchester 1873 and a Colt S. A. A. in .45 Colt make fun companions.
And for those into Cowboy Action Shooting .... THEY'RE GREEEEAAAT!:D
I suppose my argument is more so while sometimes you don’t need a 30-06, why limit yourself? Especially if the package is similar in size and weight. Pistol caliber carbines are cool as heck, they were on the forefront of innovation in the 19th century. I own quite a few myself and are some of my favorite guns to shoot. However, Since we are on the topic of practicality in modern day, I think they have been surpassed. You and I have similar taste in firearms, but the guns I like to collect aren’t always the guns I’d reach for if I’m in need.

Even in modern day, the idea of the submachine gun has been replaced in large numbers by rifle cartridge carbines due to the versatility.
 
So I set up a course once: five eight-inch steel gongs at fifty yards, two banks of them. I wanted to see how many of my bank of five I could take down with my single-shot 45-70 Browning High Wall copy with the automatic ejectors before the man beside me with the telescopically sighted bolt action cleaned his five.

Several different shooters tried.

I thought maybe I could get two. Maybe against the weaker shooters, three.

I cleaned my bank first every time.

One fellow said afterwords, "That 45-70 just kept coming like clockwork, never missing. Unnerved me."

Every one of them broke under the pressure and starting missing, shooting much worse than their normal capabilities. When they had to reload, it was obvious that this was the first time they'd ever given consideration to loading a bolt gun fast, typical for deer hunters.

Had I any premonition of what was going to happen, I would have never done it. No good can come of embarrassing someone.

Nobody is going to be satisfied with taking your AR. It's you that want to stop and was the real issue all along..

The too typical AR owner would in my opinion have fared worse under pressure than this group of deer hunters.

Before anybody says anything, I already know that against someone who understands the AR platform, I would have been lucky to have taken down the first gong before he cleaned his bank and most of mine.

A man who understands rapid fire is a joy to behold.

In close for those who know it, a bolt gun is outstanding, a lever is better, and a pump will cycle faster than the semi-automatic. Putting my old Colt pump 38 WCF through its paces does me good. In the afterglow, I can feel like there's something right with the world.
 
I think I already answered but what particular hypothetical situation?

I only ask because I have developed solutions for a number of problems, that required firearms but not dependent on cycle time.
 
I never understood the pistol caliber carbine argument. .357 ammo weighs as much or more than a 5.56, and still doesn’t offer true rifle ballistics. And sharing the same ammo with your revolver? So what! You’re just limiting yourself now to one kind of ammo.

The ease of takedown for a lever is no where close to a bolt gun. Bolt guns are stronger and more reliable in almost every way.

I don’t think the durability, or parts availability of the Mauser 98 can be disputed. Whether you have a $5,000 custom, or a cheap sporter, there are literally parts in every country in the world. Broken extractor, no problem!

I can take down my Mauser with no tools and The stripper clip guide makes it fast for reloading, and they’re bombproof. My ideal is a 30-06 Mauser 98

All that is true, but . . . this is a thread about what to do if semi-autos are banned, and I can get off 10 aimed rounds quickly from my .357, roughly as fast as I can make aimed fire with My SKS. No bolt gun can do that, even the SMLE. But the SMLE would be my bolt gun choice, for these reasons.
 
I have a 1980's model Marlin 1894 in .44 magnum and a Winchester Trapper Model .30/30 I'd probably go with. I imagine I'd move to another state before I'd live in a state that oppressive to its citizens. If such a law passes, how long before all guns are outlawed??
 
I suppose my argument is more so while sometimes you don’t need a 30-06, why limit yourself?
I don't think there's any reason to limit yourself. I like shooting 10mm auto a lot, but I also enjoy my 9mm pistols and they hold more ammo. The 10mm can do anything the 9mm can do and do it better, but that doesn't negate the fun and utility of the 9mm.

I reload pistol ammo because that's what I shoot. And it's easier to do that than a lot of bottlenecked rifle cartridges. So for me it's just preference and an acknowledgement that I don't need a 223. I could easily shoot a deer where I live at less than 150 yards. It's more like 50 yard shots here. A 158 gr 357 bullet leaving the barrel at 1600 fps will do just fine for that situation. Also, the following line from OP makes me think.
So semi autos are out of the picture and you still want to be effective in the same situations where you would use an AR or whatever you use. No possibility of parts replacement for several years. So its got to be rugged.
To me an AR in 223 is strictly a home defense tool and nothing I'd use to hunt. I don't even find them very fun to shoot, and varmint hunting has no appeal to me. So for me an 8-10 round magazine full of 357, fired from what is typically a fairly heavy lever gun, equates to a fast shooting, low recoiling, higher capacity than a lot of bolt action, defensive rifle that can be used to hunt if needed, that is likely to hold up fine for quite some time if a quality one is purchased, and that doesn't require me to load a cartridge I don't care about, or own dies for.

But something like the Ruger Scout rifle in 308 might suit someone far better, and does have the benefits of easier take down and ruggedness you describe. But pistol caliber carbines have their uses, but may not be for everyone.

If I want to kill an elk, I'll use my Ruger No1 in S&W 460 magnum.
 
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...... Putting my old Colt pump 38 WCF through its paces does me good. In the afterglow, I can feel like there's something right with the world.

"Colt ....pump 38.....??" Uh.... Colt Lightening? Is that what it is? A rather rare gun, if that IS what it is. "The rifle that should have won the west."
Is that what it is? :D Have any pictures?? ;)
 
Just in case it hasn't already been mentioned, the Ruger Scout (bolt action)
w/10 rd detachable box magazine is a pretty nice setup.
Various chamberings available incl .223 Rem and .308 Win.

The use of the AICS pattern magazines was a nice design choice.
 
I'm told that Michael Bane approached Browning about producing larger capacity magazines for the BLR.
(Constrained by the arc of the lever). Current .223 is 5 rd, current .308 family is 4 rd.

Apparently Browning wasn't interested :-(
 
"Colt ....pump 38.....??" Uh.... Colt Lightening? Is that what it is? A rather rare gun, if that IS what it is. "The rifle that should have won the west."
Is that what it is? :D Have any pictures?? ;)

I'll try to get some pictures in a few days. Deer season is on here. The Lightening has an express sight that I just love. It's very quick. At close range it's big enough for deer. I did kill one with it a few years back.

An oddity about this particular rifle, the bore measures .405. When I first got it, and tried to shoot it with an RCBS mold that drops bullets at .401, loaded for several '92 Winchesters I could barely keep my shots on notebook paper at fifteen yards. With the right bullet, it's deadly accurate.

It's capable of slam firing like the old Model 12's, but given the rarity of parts, I don't dare do it.
 
I never understood the pistol caliber carbine argument. .357 ammo weighs as much or more than a 5.56, and still doesn’t offer true rifle ballistics. And sharing the same ammo with your revolver? So what! You’re just limiting yourself now to one kind of ammo.
Hot .357 out of a rifle-length barrel is closer to 7.62x39mm ballistics than to 9mm (125gr JHP at 2000 to 2100 ft/sec, out of a 16”-18” barrel). The Cor-Bon 125gr load can exceed 1300 ft-lbs, more than a typical .223 out of a 16” barrel.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

Add to that what 460shooter said: a lever-action .357 (especially with a red dot and light) is a pretty decent substitute for an AR in the HD role, rather than in the longer range precision shooting role. At inside-the-home distances, a pump or lever is probably the better choice. For longer range shooting, varmint hunting, etc. though, the bolt gun would certainly reign supreme.

1DAECF11-E720-49A5-9F19-28054BE55841.jpeg
 
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http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/06/stangskyting-amazing-bolt-action-rifle-speed-shooting/

watch the video at the above link. some bolts are much faster than others.


Every one of them broke under the pressure and starting missing, shooting much worse than their normal capabilities. When they had to reload, it was obvious that this was the first time they'd ever given consideration to loading a bolt gun fast, typical for deer hunters.

<snip>

A man who understands rapid fire is a joy to behold.

In close for those who know it, a bolt gun is outstanding, a lever is better, and a pump will cycle faster than the semi-automatic. Putting my old Colt pump 38 WCF through its paces does me good. In the afterglow, I can feel like there's something right with the world.


generally speaking, if you are shooting close range large targets standing and moving, the lever action is going to have the speed advantage, and the typical lightweight, slim body of most lever guns lends itself to that style of shooting because from standing, the forward motion of the lever minimizes the disruption of your position, while the opposite is true of bolt guns with a rearward motion. the latter lend themselves to the lower positions typically required for precision shooting. from prone, operating a lever is more disruptive than a bolt.

someone who is well practiced can operate either quickly.

on your 8" gongs, I'd wager that almost all of the 200 folks shooting in the PRS Finale today could hit them from prone at a distance of 500 yards in around 10 seconds. and everyone practices reloads.

however, from standing, at 50 yards, with the same rifles, my guess is the fastest would be around 5 sec per shot, which would be easily bested by a competent lever gun shooter.

also, the pressure of competition really adversely affects most people. go to any match and you will see folks go "buzzer dumb" as soon as their time starts, it's like the first time they've handled a gun. although some people think bolt guns are more reliable than ARs, etc, the manual actions of loading and cycling bolt are so often screwed up by people under pressure that practically, they are much much less reliable
 
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/06/stangskyting-amazing-bolt-action-rifle-speed-shooting/

watch the video at the above link. some bolts are much faster than others.




, the manual actions of loading and cycling bolt are so often screwed up by people under pressure that practically, they are much much less reliable

I've seen this and been amazed by it. What kind of religion do we give our young people today? Certainly, it's not the way I grew up, the manipulation of the bolt gun being the most important quality a man could possess. It's not unusual to see people who've learned to shoot the bolt gun with great precision, yet who don't have a clue how it might be maintained in rapid fire. It's as if they carry a single shot that happens to have a magazine.
 
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