CVA Kentucky .45

I have known them by two names .One is Markwell mentioned by Gary above. The other is Monarch. I also think that there are other names used. Some don't like them but I have a respect for mine. That is after I fixed the lock.
Black Jack Shellac

Remember Markwell from mid to late 70s.

Steel Hayes said:

I’m not much of a long rifle person, but this was a deal I couldn’t pass up.
Not having a lot of experience in BP rifles, is round balls the best load for this gun?
I’m using .015 patch and a .451 Hornady ball with 45grn Goex 3f.(pretty accurate at 75yrds).
Any help is appreciated if there something better to shoot with.
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Check your rifling ratio; use a cleaning jag with a very snug patch, run down bore mark with a flag of tape and back out till you get 1/2 turn measure then double and you get your ratio 1/66, 1/48... Most probably 1/48 the most common, try some Lee Real bullets they are very accurate out of my Ky. with a 1/48 twist.

I also thought it looked like a Miroku stock due to the brass stock spacer.
I thought that some folks mentioned that their Miroku Kentucky rifles had Spanish barrels.
I also thought that the Jukars had a drum instead of a snail that was built into the breech.
Some of the Miroku guns were sold as kits.
Most factory Miroku guns said made in Japan on the barrel.
But other earlier ones may have had barrels marked Spain.
A Japanese made Miroku gun only had 3 lands of rifling I believe.
And the Japanese bores were tight enough to require .433 patched balls.
Although that doesn't mean that their Spanish bores had the same construction.
Some of the Miroku guns were imported by Ultra-Hi.
If you look up some photos of Ultra-Hi Miroku Kentucky rifles there may be a very strong stock resemblance, and also the snail or bolster design.

arcticap said:

I also thought it looked it looked like a Miroku stock due to the brass stock spacer....I also thought that the Jukars had a drum instead of a snail that was built into the breech..... Some of the Miroku guns were imported by Ultra-Hi.

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Arcticap nailed it...

That's an Ultra-Hi rifle. Very similar to the CVA. Three characteristics of the Ultra-Hi were the stock spacer, the wood under the snail, and the snail for the nipple...



The CVA indeed had a smaller spacer and a drum, supported by the actual lock face.....


LD

Well, I was gonna come on board and say the nipple set up (non-drum) doesn't look like any CVA I've ever seen but Artic Cap and Loyalist Dave gave you a definitive answer on that point. Looks like you got a screaming good deal on a gun that with a little work should turn out to be a decent shooter.

A while back I picked up this (what I believe was a kit due to all the little issues) CVA Kentucky rifle for $150. 1/48 twist. Had a minor problem with the lock and corrected that and the other flaws of the previous owner/builder and it turned out to be a surprisingly good shooter for me. My first BP rifle was a CVA Hawken and I've always had an affinity for the older traditional models made in Spain and the CVA's in particular. They were solid guns for an honest price.

I build two of the CVA kits back when they first showed up. I left the spacer in the first rifle and removed it and joined the stock for a more authentic look on the second. Both were 45 caliber, 1 in 66 twist and were pretty darn accurate with round balls. Back before crows were added to the protected bird list I found that crows weren't smart enough to recognize them as guns and would let you get close enough for a shot. A 45 caliber round ball makes hash out of a crow. I sold both rifles and now kind of wish I had kept the last one I built.

doubleh said:

Both were 45 caliber, 1 in 66 twist and were pretty darn accurate with round balls

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I know, right?

Mine is a .45 caliber, and I tried TC Maxi-Balls back in the day, as I didn't know back in the 80's enough about twist rates vs. conicals. Put lovely key-hole type holes in the target at 25 yards...bullet must've been tumbling like a football kicked for a field goal. But a .440 round ball, patched, I'd get a clover-leaf at 50 yards.

LD

Ooops double post dang it

Loyalist Dave said:

Mine is a .45 caliber, and I tried TC Maxi-Balls back in the day, as I didn't know back in the 80's enough about twist rates vs. conicals. Put lovely key-hole type holes in the target at 25 yards...bullet must've been tumbling like a football kicked for a field goal. But a .440 round ball, patched, I'd get a clover-leaf at 50 yards.

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I really thought those CVA Kentucky Rifles in .45 caliber were 1/66 twist. But I've been wrong before.

Ratshooter said:

I really thought those CVA Kentucky Rifles in .45 caliber were 1/66 twist. But I've been wrong before.

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No you're correct.....Key Holes means the conicals which were not stabilized...due to the slow twist...went through the target sideways...not good at all. I was being sarcastic when I called the key holes "lovely".
The round balls did a clover leaf pattern. MUCH better Something like this:


LD

For a while Deer Creek had several of the 45 cal Kentucky rifles branded by Traditions and they were listed as having a 1/66 twist. I wish I would have bought on when they were available. They still show a 45 cal flintlock in stock. But they have changed the website some and no longer show the rifling twist but those were also listed 1/66 before the site change.

just a tiny bit of info on deer creek. wish they were back as they were years ago. they sold a traditions with a maple stock. the barrel was american made by them. the 50 cal. was a 1/60 twist. i built 3 of them and they were tack drivers way out their. shot a deer and a antelope at 150 yards with 100 grains of powder behind the .495 round ball. my friend has 2 of them. gave the other to a poor minister. they were shooters with that twist and well made. their maple stocks were plain maple, hard rock type. they are worth a nice penny if you can find one in nice shape. american made barrels 50 cal 1/60 twist. i talked to the owner years ago and he said he tested a lot of twists and at 100 yards the 1/60 twist preformed the best with any load.

My CVA 45 Kentucky was from a kit and has a 1: 66" twist, great for round balls, not so much for maxi's.
Although I did kill a deer with it using a maxi before I measured the twist and switched to RB.