Cimarron Schofield

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Gary W. Strange

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A few months ago, I was shooting with one of buddies. He brought out a Cimarron Schofield. It was the blue, 5” barrel model. I looked it over and I was very impressed with the quality. So much so, I had my regular shop order one for me. It took almost 3 months to get in. The one I received is just as the one my shooting buddy has. It is very well made, tight and locks up tight, the blue looks very deep and metal well polished, the grips have pretty grain and fit the frame really nice. It is a very nice firearm. I am well pleased with it. I have a couple questions I would like people that have experience with the Cimarron Schofield to give me some advice on. First off, I have read the reviews on line. As normal they range from the best firearm ever made to wouldn’t make a good paperweight. What have people that own and shoot them know. Are the decent firearms or not. Second. I load a .45 Colt 250 grain lead bullet over 4.5 grains of tightgroup, book says around 750 FPS. I am sure this would be fine. My other pet load is a 250 grain jacket bullet over 5.7 grains of tightgroup. Book says around 800 FPS for this load. It does fine in my Colt Single actions. I shoot jacket bullets now more than lead because they are a lot easer to clean up behind. Are jacketed bullets of in the Schofield? Manual that came with is said modern ammunition. Some of you that know about the Cimarron Schofield, chime in and tell me what your experience is. If I have to only use lead that will be fine but I rather d sad shoot a jacketed bullet. Nothing hot just a good plinking, maybe d sm
 
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wish their was input on this one as it is a very interesting revolver. bet it works good for you. i have several uberti colts and i would never shoot jacketed bullets in them. i use a 60 thousands thick poly or fiber wad behind the bullet and their is never ever a clean up problem. no leading or residue left after that stiff wad passes with the bullet through the bore. ive even put two wads behind the bullet and accuracy stays the same.
 
Catman42 said:
wish their was input on this one as it is a very interesting revolver. bet it works good for you. i have several uberti colts and i would never shoot jacketed bullets in them. i use a 60 thousands thick poly or fiber wad behind the bullet and their is never ever a clean up problem. no leading or residue left after that stiff wad passes with the bullet through the bore. ive even put two wads behind the bullet and accuracy stays the same.
Click to expand...
Never thought about poly wads. I have considered has checks.
 
Howdy

I don't have a Cimarron Schofield, I have several original S&W large Top Breaks, including a couple of Schofields.

That said, I would avoid any ammo that put a lot of recoil stress on your Schofield, which by the way was actually made by Uberti.

Uberti proofs all their firearms to European standards, which are actually slightly higher than American SAAMI standards. So in theory your Schofield can safely fire any 45 Colt ammunition that does not exceed SAAMI standards, 14,000 psi if I recall correctly.

However all Top Break revolvers, unlike solid frame revolvers such as the Colt Single Action Army, can eventually exhibit frame stretching from the repeated pounding of heavy recoil. I have one old Top Break that required some expert gunsmithing to tighten up the latch. I have seen many old Top Breaks that were loose at the latch because of too many heavy loads over the years.

So if I was you I would stick with moderate loads. I am not familiar with Titegroup, I am a Unique guy. If I had your revolver I would stick with loads that do not generate a whole lot of recoil. You should be able to tell which loads are mild and which loads are stout.

If it was my gun, I would only shoot cast bullets out of it, no jacketed stuff.
 
i have several uberti colts and this is what i shoot in them very accuratly with no stress to the gun. blackhorn 209 powder. one or two 60 thousands wads then a slightly oversized round ball sett on top of the wad. rolled crimped over the end of the round ball. very accurate and no stress on the gun. it does hit hard and is not a wimp load.
 
You can get supercoat painted bullets from several scources. They have them in 45 colt. I use them in 38 special.They shoot great and the cleanup is almost nothing. . Less than jacketed bullets and cheaper too. What's not to like?
Black Jack Shellac
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

I don't have a Cimarron Schofield, I have several original S&W large Top Breaks, including a couple of Schofields.

That said, I would avoid any ammo that put a lot of recoil stress on your Schofield, which by the way was actually made by Uberti.

Uberti proofs all their firearms to European standards, which are actually slightly higher than American SAAMI standards. So in theory your Schofield can safely fire any 45 Colt ammunition that does not exceed SAAMI standards, 14,000 psi if I recall correctly.

However all Top Break revolvers, unlike solid frame revolvers such as the Colt Single Action Army, can eventually exhibit frame stretching from the repeated pounding of heavy recoil. I have one old Top Break that required some expert gunsmithing to tighten up the latch. I have seen many old Top Breaks that were loose at the latch because of too many heavy loads over the years.

So if I was you I would stick with moderate loads. I am not familiar with Titegroup, I am a Unique guy. If I had your revolver I would stick with loads that do not generate a whole lot of recoil. You should be able to tell which loads are mild and which loads are stout.

If it was my gun, I would only shoot cast bullets out of it, no jacketed stuff.
Click to expand...

I was not think hot loads by any means. Loads in the 750-800 fps range. Noting hot at all.
 
Black Jack Shellac said:
You can get supercoat painted bullets from several scources. They have them in 45 colt. I use them in 38 special.They shoot great and the cleanup is almost nothing. . Less than jacketed bullets and cheaper too. What's not to like?
Black Jack Shellac
Click to expand...
I will be looking into this suggestion, for sure.
 
Catman42 said:
i have several uberti colts and this is what i shoot in them very accuratly with no stress to the gun. blackhorn 209 powder. one or two 60 thousands wads then a slightly oversized round ball sett on top of the wad. rolled crimped over the end of the round ball. very accurate and no stress on the gun. it does hit hard and is not a wimp load.
Click to expand...

Howdy Again

The modern Top Break reproductions made by Uberti do not do very well shooting Black Powder or Black Powder substitutes.

The principal cause of binding with revolvers shot with Black Powder is fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap being deposited on the cylinder pin. As more fouling gets deposited, the cylinder binds.

Unlike the Colt replicas, which have a substantial gas collar at the front of the cylinder, which deflects black powder fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the cylinder pin,Uberti compromised the design of their Top Breaks somewhat. The original S&W Top Breaks had a substantial gas collar at the front of the cylinder. Just like with a Colt, the gas collar deflected fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the underlying cylinder arbor.

In order to accommodate longer cartridges, such as 45 Colt and 44/40, than the original shorter 45 Schofield round, Uberti lengthened the cylinders on their Top Breaks, but they did not lengthen the cylinder window in the frame a corresponding amount. Instead they shortened the gas collar at the front of the bushing. The shorter gas collar does not do as good a job shielding the cylinder arbor from Black Powder fouling so the Uberti Top Breaks tend to bind up from just a few rounds of Black Powder or Black Powder substitutes.

Left to right, the cylinders in this photo are from an Uberti Cattleman, an 'original model' Ruger Vaquero, and a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army. Each cylinder has a substantial gas collar or bushing at the front, which serves to deflect fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the cylinder pin. Not an issue with Smokeless powder, but a big concern with Black Powder.

cylinderbushings.jpg




This is the cylinder from a S&W 44 Double Action. Note the prominent bushing pressed into the front of the cylinder. I shoot old Top Breaks like this with Black Powder all the time, and the bushing does its job of deflecting fouling away from the cylinder arbor.

44DAcylinder_zps725959ab.jpg




The cylinder in the foreground of this photo is from an old ASM Schofield. Note how much shorter the bushing is than on the cylinder behind it. This bushing will allow a substantial amount of fouling to get past on to the cylinder arbor, binding up the cylinder in short order.

navyarmscylasmcylwbushingenhanced_zpse5e216f1.jpg



Bottom line, the modern replicas of the S&W Top Breaks do not do very well with Black Powder, but they shoot excellently with Smokeless.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy Again

The modern Top Break reproductions made by Uberti do not do very well shooting Black Powder or Black Powder substitutes.

The principal cause of binding with revolvers shot with Black Powder is fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap being deposited on the cylinder pin. As more fouling gets deposited, the cylinder binds.

Unlike the Colt replicas, which have a substantial gas collar at the front of the cylinder, which deflects black powder fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the cylinder pin,Uberti compromised the design of their Top Breaks somewhat. The original S&W Top Breaks had a substantial gas collar at the front of the cylinder. Just like with a Colt, the gas collar deflected fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the underlying cylinder arbor.

In order to accommodate longer cartridges, such as 45 Colt and 44/40, than the original shorter 45 Schofield round, Uberti lengthened the cylinders on their Top Breaks, but they did not lengthen the cylinder window in the frame a corresponding amount. Instead they shortened the gas collar at the front of the bushing. The shorter gas collar does not do as good a job shielding the cylinder arbor from Black Powder fouling so the Uberti Top Breaks tend to bind up from just a few rounds of Black Powder or Black Powder substitutes.

Left to right, the cylinders in this photo are from an Uberti Cattleman, an 'original model' Ruger Vaquero, and a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army. Each cylinder has a substantial gas collar or bushing at the front, which serves to deflect fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the cylinder pin. Not an issue with Smokeless powder, but a big concern with Black Powder.

View attachment 873270




This is the cylinder from a S&W 44 Double Action. Note the prominent bushing pressed into the front of the cylinder. I shoot old Top Breaks like this with Black Powder all the time, and the bushing does its job of deflecting fouling away from the cylinder arbor.

View attachment 873271




The cylinder in the foreground of this photo is from an old ASM Schofield. Note how much shorter the bushing is than on the cylinder behind it. This bushing will allow a substantial amount of fouling to get past on to the cylinder arbor, binding up the cylinder in short order.

View attachment 873272



Bottom line, the modern replicas of the S&W Top Breaks do not do very well with Black Powder, but they shoot excellently with Smokeless.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the good information. Can jacket bullets be used at low volecty, low pressure loads be used in the Schofield. Someone suggested super coated bullets. I am going to check those out. Just wondering about a good plinking load that will shoot clean.
 
Gary W. Strange said:
Thank you for the good information. Can jacket bullets be used at low volecty, low pressure loads be used in the Schofield. Someone suggested super coated bullets. I am going to check those out. Just wondering about a good plinking load that will shoot clean.
Click to expand...

Howdy Again

I have very limited experience with jacket bullets, I only use them when I reload 45 ACP, and I don't reload much of that.

Having said that, the purpose of jacketed bullets is that they can be driven at higher velocity than lead bullets. At higher velocities, friction tends to smear and melt lead in the bore. Copper jackets on bullets have a higher melting point than lead and can be driven at higher velocities than lead without melting and smearing in the bore. So I don't see any point to using jacketed bullets at lead bullet velocities.

Easier to clean than lead? Perhaps. But I have to tell you that I am one of those heretics who usually does not clean his revolvers after a shooting session with Smokeless powder and lead bullets. After Black Powder, yes, but not after a session of lead bullets with Smokeless powder.

I cannot tell you for a fact, but I suspect the slightly harder copper jacket will wear your barrel slightly faster than lead bullets. Is it enough to be significant? Probably not. But that is just a guess. After all, I'm pretty sure Doughboys were were shooting copper jacketed bullets in their 1917 45ACP revolvers during WWI.

Regarding super coated bullets or any other new fancy-shmancy bullet types, I know nothing about them. I pretty much stick to lead bullets with all my revolvers.
 
I have two Uberti made Schofields that I shoot Frontier Duelist in CAS, ie black powder.

First, the revolver is made of modern steel and proofed for any load listed in a manual for regular, not Ruger only, 45LC. The suggestion that loads that do not exceed 14,000 lbs MAP will damage or stretch the receiver is unfounded.

Second, as I shoot Schofields with black powder in competition, I can confirm that they shoot just fine with black powder. I shoot 6-8 stage matches without having to clean them and without binding. Big Lube bullets and plenty of soft lube seem to do the trick.
 
a lower velosity copped jacketed bullet can cause a squib. ive seen this. not easy to get out but it came out. the shooter never reloaded with jacketed bullets again. if you dont notice the squib, the next one will blow up your gun.
 
DocRock said:
I have two Uberti made Schofields that I shoot Frontier Duelist in CAS, ie black powder.

First, the revolver is made of modern steel and proofed for any load listed in a manual for regular, not Ruger only, 45LC. The suggestion that loads that do not exceed 14,000 lbs MAP will damage or stretch the receiver is unfounded.

Second, as I shoot Schofields with black powder in competition, I can confirm that they shoot just fine with black powder. I shoot 6-8 stage matches without having to clean them and without binding. Big Lube bullets and plenty of soft lube seem to do the trick.
Click to expand...

Would you say jacketed bullet loads in the 750-800 fps range would be ok?
 
It seems to me that you are looking for plated bullets. These can be loaded to cast velocities using cast data while avoiding most of the smoke and some of the cleanup associated with cast bullets. And while they are a bit pricier than cast, on average, the are much less costly than most jacketed bullets. I personally prefer the Rainier brand in .45 Colt, but the Berry's do the job too.
 
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