How to tel if old gun has been “wildcatted”?

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Wooden

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Hi - I found an old rifle, in my dads gun safe - and it fit me like a glove. A rare feeling, as I am a smaller person. I asked my dad about it and he said it’s a gun his grandpa made, from a “German Mauser”.

He thinks from Mil Surplus and thought 7mm, both gun stores I have been to say 8mm Mauser. (He hasn’t shot the gun much, not at all in 20+ yrs, and gave the ammo away....

How do I know if the thing has been “wildcatted” to 8mm-06 or is some other odd caliber for that matter? In my reading, apparently it was popular for guys after WW2 bringing these things home, to wildcat to 8mm-06 so they could reload from the more readily available 30-06 ammo. Guy at gun store did not acknowledge this (and was like there is no reason someone would do that) but I don’t think the 8mmx57 was as readily available as it is today.
 
Do a casting of the chamber. Ive never done it but theres plenty on this site on how to do it. If you cannot identify it as some commonly made wild-cat or standard cartridge, its likely a home made job by some guy in his garage. At that point if you’re not interested in a barrel swap,(id recommend doing that), you can have rcbs make custom dies for your unique wildcat. Im not sure how much that costs, but I know they do and I dont think its hugely expensive.
 
For an 8mm Mauser, if it will chamber a 30-06,than the chamber has been changed. The 30-06 is too long for the chamber of an 8mm Mauser. Until you figure out whether it is a 7mm or 8mm I am not going to advise you to fire the 30-06 case. If you slather a 30-06 with grease or sizing lube and fire the thing in a 8mm-06 chamber, nothing bad will happen. The bullet will bounce down the barrel , the case will expand, grease will prevent the case from seizing in the chamber. But you don't even know what caliber the barrel is cut to. You can use a dial caliper and measure the muzzle. An 8mm should be 0.323".

I have one refinished German K98 Mauser. It was refinished and rebarreled by the Yugo's. Brand new highly blued barrel. It never shot well, I bedded the action, smoothed out the trigger pull. It blew chunks with everything. Measured the distance between grooves, it is a 0.328" barrel. Worth checking.

Cerrosafe will tell you exactly what chamber you have.
 
wow - thanks for all the suggestions guys!

I will admit I am not a gunsmith by any stretch of imagination but posted in this forum as I felt it was kind of a “question for a gunsmith”.

I’m gonna have to go back to the FAQ to figure out how to post pics of gun (I don’t have a photo bucket or anything now, but, yes it has a stepped barrel.

also a very faint crown over B, crown over U on it next to either the SN or lot. Number on the receiver. The same number also next to it on the barrel.

thanks!

also, on the Cerrosafe suggestion - any idea on what that would run me (Approximately) to have done by a gunsmith?

The gun will cycle 8mm Mauser. Both gun stores confirmed this first.

thanks all!
 
Ok here’s some pics 225681F1-5F0F-440C-92E3-12E64A4BDFDF.jpeg C1DE7094-D2F4-4D50-AC41-ECF86528BCE5.jpeg 127F0B4E-5B84-45EE-A7E0-61E34BF87AAC.jpeg 93A4B6A8-A495-408C-9555-34631DF9AD64.jpeg 1A4CA0F5-77B2-48A8-B812-AB7F7A0A5D36.jpeg 92876E0D-7BD6-4463-AB1B-475352EC03F8.jpeg 3852CE88-459C-4D5F-89B5-E7164D7BE58D.jpeg ED9A5E27-462B-44CE-8891-F0489DE205B9.jpeg

and I know she needs a good cleaning. Never taken a gun fully apart before except an OU and I don’t want to screw up the screws on it more than they already have been; by using the wrong screwdriver. Willing to buy the stuff and learn just about anything though.
 
If you're not 100% sure about the chambering of a gun, the only thing to do is take it to a gunsmith and have him do a chamber cast and interpret it. You don't want to experiment with firing the wrong ammo!
 
That is a nice old sporter, I like the lines of it. Simple, functional, rugged.
I'd guess about $20-$25 for a gunsmith to to the chamber cast.
The shops said 8mm Mauser will cycle, see if a 30-06 will cycle.
Do you know a good local gunsmith?
 
Wooden said:
Ok here’s some pics View attachment 873802View attachment 873803View attachment 873804View attachment 873805View attachment 873806View attachment 873807View attachment 873808View attachment 873809

and I know she needs a good cleaning. Never taken a gun fully apart before except an OU and I don’t want to screw up the screws on it more than they already have been; by using the wrong screwdriver. Willing to buy the stuff and learn just about anything though.
Click to expand...

Let's see the butt stock carving. Someone with some artistic skill did something, and I see inlays. No stock bolts, that is not a military stock, or at least, was not a military finished stock. Very interesting rifle. If you show us more stampings so we can identify Imperial proofs versus WW2.
 
Slamfire said:
For an 8mm Mauser, if it will chamber a 30-06,than the chamber has been changed. The 30-06 is too long for the chamber of an 8mm Mauser. Until you figure out whether it is a 7mm or 8mm I am not going to advise you to fire the 30-06 case. If you slather a 30-06 with grease or sizing lube and fire the thing in a 8mm-06 chamber, nothing bad will happen. The bullet will bounce down the barrel , the case will expand, grease will prevent the case from seizing in the chamber. But you don't even know what caliber the barrel is cut to. You can use a dial caliper and measure the muzzle. An 8mm should be 0.323".

I have one refinished German K98 Mauser. It was refinished and rebarreled by the Yugo's. Brand new highly blued barrel. It never shot well, I bedded the action, smoothed out the trigger pull. It blew chunks with everything. Measured the distance between grooves, it is a 0.328" barrel. Worth checking.

Cerrosafe will tell you exactly what chamber you have.
Click to expand...

So, are you saying I could rule out it being a 8mm-06 by putting a 30-06 bullet in there, and seeing if I can work the bolt? (Close bolt to get one in the chamber, open bolt and see if it eject?)

As in, if it’s 8mm-06 30-06 would go in all the way to the chamber and action could probably be worked, but if it’s standard 8mm Mauser 30-06 would simply not chamber all the way and not allow the bolt to close??

So can this be reasonably tried “safely” (of course in a safe location, not touching the trigger, NOT firing etc.) to rule out the possibility of it being 8mm-06?

To be clear I AM confident at this point it’s 8mm not 7mm bore. 8mm does fit; does cycle, and 2 diff gun shops have expressed confidence it’s 8mm Mauser. But.... I just want to make sure it is correct - as I am not sure if they were able to eliminate 8mm-06 for consideration one guy didn’t seem to be aware of this being done at one time due to scarcity of the 8mm ammo stateside.
 
See if an empty 30-06 brass will chamber if you don't have a dummy round and don't want to chamber a live round.
30-06 will chamber in an 8mm-06 chamber.
8mm mauser will chamber in an 8mm-06 chamber.
30-06 will not chamber in an 8mm mauser chamber.
If 30-06 will not chamber then there's a high likelihood it is still in 8mm mauser. If it will chamber then it's likely to be 8mm-06.
You still need to check the bore diameter.
 
#1buck said:
See if an empty 30-06 brass will chamber if you don't have a dummy round and don't want to chamber a live round.
30-06 will chamber in an 8mm-06 chamber.
8mm mauser will chamber in an 8mm-06 chamber.
30-06 will not chamber in an 8mm mauser chamber.
If 30-06 will not chamber then there's a high likelihood it is still in 8mm mauser. If it will chamber then it's likely to be 8mm-06.
You still need to check the bore diameter.
Click to expand...

+1.
 
one thing to be aware of. You cannot close the bolt on a round you put in the chamber. The extractor will not slip over the rim. You will have to manually slip the cartridge under the extractor before closing the bolt. If you are going to use live ammunition to check chamber learn how to disassemble the bolt. It is easy, lots of videos available. Just learn how to remove the shroud/firing pin and spring as a unit. With just the bolt body all is good no chance of accidental discharge.
 
Slamfire said:
Let's see the butt stock carving. Someone with some artistic skill did something, and I see inlays. No stock bolts, that is not a military stock, or at least, was not a military finished stock. Very interesting rifle. If you show us more stampings so we can identify Imperial proofs versus WW2.
Click to expand...

Thanks! My great grandpa made the stock. My dad says he made it from a blank. The one thing I know about my great grandpa is that he was really into carving. Still have a set of carving tools from him and used them as a kid growing up.

Here are some closeups of the stock, j will show some markings too.... but that might have to be in another reply... DC1C242B-A5C8-4457-A357-DF26F371C6C3.jpeg 2A41500C-9F63-40D0-8217-C27075213C4D.jpeg CA76FC9B-4A00-4614-8764-819C566C733A.jpeg CA76FC9B-4A00-4614-8764-819C566C733A.jpeg
 
I want to like your answer.... but I really want to be able to shoot this gun! It would be even sweeter to get a deer with it! Nice days only!

The thing about this gun is, this one, way back in the back corner of the gun safe, forgotten, I pulled it out, shouldered it - felt like it was MADE for ME! Opened my eyes and the pin was right there in the peep. It fit my hands like it was made for them. This NEVER happens with me..... most guns (normal size) feel HUGE and blocky and most kids guns feel like toys. How can I NOT want to shoot it??

Only after this did I notice - WOW the engraving on the stock, and I ran upstairs with this rifle; To ask my dad; “what is this gun??”

He sort of shrugged and said it was my Great-Grandpa’s That HE made, was just really magical. Kind of like a Disney-Movie moment, but WITH guns! My GG is a WW1 Vet, the gun is believe to be WW2 era (but If it’s 98 idk couldn’t it be either?) he made the stock NLT 1960 when my dad was a toddler.

When it comes to gun fit, it was like Cinderella and the glass slipper. I can shoulder a hundred guns and not find one that feels half as good. But this gun.... and to think my dad thought nothing of it and let it collect dust my entire life... I feel like I’ve found a buried treasure!
 

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The .338 magnum case that is the parent case to the 8mm/.338 wildcat cartridge mentioned above is a belted magnum case meaning there is an extra reinforcement of the case head that results in a belt around the head of the case. See the picture below. That belt results in a step being cut into the opening of the chamber to accommodate that step. You can easily observe that if you clean the chamber and look into it with a good light.
375vs338.png
qK3Xnd8F9DRNgjih7
 
Wooden said:
I want to like your answer.... but I really want to be able to shoot this gun! It would be even sweeter to get a deer with it! Nice days only!

The thing about this gun is, this one, way back in the back corner of the gun safe, forgotten, I pulled it out, shouldered it - felt like it was MADE for ME! Opened my eyes and the pin was right there in the peep. It fit my hands like it was made for them. This NEVER happens with me..... most guns (normal size) feel HUGE and blocky and most kids guns feel like toys. How can I NOT want to shoot it??

Only after this did I notice - WOW the engraving on the stock, and I ran upstairs with this rifle; To ask my dad; “what is this gun??”

He sort of shrugged and said it was my Great-Grandpa’s That HE made, was just really magical. Kind of like a Disney-Movie moment, but WITH guns! My GG is a WW1 Vet, the gun is believe to be WW2 era (but If it’s 98 idk couldn’t it be either?) he made the stock NLT 1960 when my dad was a toddler.

When it comes to gun fit, it was like Cinderella and the glass slipper. I can shoulder a hundred guns and not find one that feels half as good. But this gun.... and to think my dad thought nothing of it and let it collect dust my entire life... I feel like I’ve found a buried treasure!
Click to expand...

If you want to shoot it and after you know what caliber it is; put it in a hard side gun case and take it to the range.

I used to hunt and every deer rifle and shotgun in safe whether it was mine or my father's has some scratches from being carried in the woods or fields.

With that rifle, you actually own 2 rifles. The first is a work of art anyone who shoots or collects firearms would "drool" on it when they saw it. The second is even more important; it is a true family heirloom to be passed on to your own child, the one who will appreciate it as much as you do.

You did find a treasure and I can understand why your father kept it the safe..
 
My boss was a Nervous Arisaka Owner. His was straight IJA in very good condition, but he was worried about its safety. So we tied it to his spare tire and fired it with a string. It didn't blow up, so we concluded it was ok. He was a battleship* sailor, so he got it out of a stack of surrendered weapons, not lifted from an enemy "who didn't need it any more."

*The Pennsylvania. I wonder if he knew that Marine officer in Sky Aft... a fellow name of Cooper.
 
Wow thanks for all the awesome knowledge and feedback guys! I am so tickled with my treasure and am enjoying learning it’s story - Lotta mystery here!

Back to the markings also forgive me if any of my terminology for the gun anatomy is a little off, I am just learning): I would really like to find out what this gun is ... note these are all obtained from the fully assembled gun with stock and sights, only thing I took out was the bolt.

Gun characteristics:
Cal: we THINK 8mm Mauser Based on 2 gun stores but ... Headed to gunsmith on Friday to get a more thorough answer.
Barrel: Stepped, 23.62” version I think
Codes!! To figure out what it is!?!
  • Barrel: 370
  • Receiver Ring: 370, faint “crown over” B, over “crown over” U
  • Bottom of Receiver next to bottom of magazine: 370, also a small marking that appears to be “crown over” pi (the mathematical symbol). Or it could be “JT”, “JI” “TI” or something.
  • Screw on trigger guard: has some kind of “crown over” mark I can’t make out.
  • Outside of “magazine cover plate”: 70
  • Top of bolt stop: 70 (almost looks like 7.0 this threw me off at first)
  • Side of bolt stop: very faint, cursive R, can’t tell if there is a crown over it, if there is it’s extremely faint.
  • Top of 3-position safety: 72
  • 3-position safety lever: Z inside a circle
  • Inside of magazine: “crown over” cursive capital D, 70.
  • Bolt: 85 on end of bolt
  • Bolt: front end, some other part of the bolt, 72
  • Bolt: bottom rear: Z with circle around it.
  • Bolt Handle: appears to have been replaced or at least modified at one time, it is welded on to the bolt. Top of bolt handle appears there are maybe 2 letters? But I can’t decipher.
 
Last edited:
If you were in my part of Tn I'd say bring that thing by and we'd figure it out pretty quick
 
Jim Watson said:
My boss was a Nervous Arisaka Owner. His was straight IJA in very good condition, but he was worried about its safety. So we tied it to his spare tire and fired it with a string. It didn't blow up, so we concluded it was ok. He was a battleship* sailor, so he got it out of a stack of surrendered weapons, not lifted from an enemy "who didn't need it any more."
Click to expand...

My father and I used the same old tire, rope and string fire.. We also added some old rugs on top. If it survived a few rounds we came to the same conclusion.
 
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