6.5 Creedmoor past present future

horsemen61 said:

@Llama Bob id love to hear what your load is!

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Lapua large primer brass
Federal 215 or 215M primer (yes, it's a magnum primer - trades a bit of velocity spread for temp stability)
RL-23
Lee factory crimp 3/8 turn past touching
.020" off the lands (measured with Hornady gauge)
.002" neck tension
Shoulder bump .001" to .002"

Load to velocity at up to 2810 in a 28" ONLY (2730 in a 24"). Starting charge is 40gr. I hit velocity at about 43.4, although my barrel seems to have sped up a hair so I'm loading 43.3 now. Note this will be much higher if you omit the crimp.
This is a 65KPSI load. Don't go faster than the load-to velocity. Don't work it up in a new barrel where pressure and velocity are still increasing. Do not use in a rifle that you're not 100% sure is a 65KPSI rifle (chambered without dimensional or material changes in a 65KPSI magnum). Drop velocities by 35 ft/s for SAAMI-spec pressures.
I have a velocity node right about 2805 to 2810 so that's where I load to. But if the node was lower, I'd load lower.

MCMXI said:

That was my first experience (vicariously) of hunting with a 6.5 mm bullet. It worked just fine on that deer but I'm still going to stick with .308 Win.

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It’s a good thing that there are an intrepid handful of us still shooting and reloading for the antiquated, obsolete and impotent .308 win.

Through our sacrifice of ballistic coefficient, endurance of bone crushing recoil and tolerance of ridicule from the “cool kids” we are preserving this bygone era of cartridge design for future generations of shooters.

Nature Boy said:

It’s a good thing that there are an intrepid handful of us still shooting and reloading for the antiquated, obsolete and impotent .308 win.

Through our sacrifice of ballistic coefficient, endurance of bone crushing recoil and tolerance of ridicule from the “cool kids” we are preserving this bygone era of cartridge design for future generations of shooters.

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Yep, I'm definitely in the .308 Win club too. I have an AI with a 6.5 CM barrel and another with a 6.5x47 Lapua barrel and if I were shooting for pink slips I would certainly be a fool to screw the .308 Win barrel back on the AW. Many would say that I'd be a fool using 6.5mm instead of 6mm something. But for me, when it comes to an all-around cartridge I find the .308 Win hard to beat. I can load bullets from 100gr up to 240gr, I can load subsonic with ease, I can find many excellent solid copper bullets with weights of 110gr, 130gr, 150gr, 165gr, 168gr, 175gr, 180gr, 190gr and 200gr, and so many good powders that are now readily available. The 6.5 CM is much more limited in bullet weight and powder selection. Factory ammunition has proven to be good to excellent for both but I'm a reloader so that's a wash.

.308 Win and 6.5 CM rifles of the same model will typically differ by 4oz in weight with the .30 cal being lighter. I still don't accept that the 6.5 CM has "significantly" less felt recoil than the .308 Win shooting similar weight bullets e.g. a 143gr ELD-X and a 150gr TTSX. For the more recoil sensitive perhaps there's a difference, even if it's part placebo. As I mentioned, for hunting I prefer the .308 Win and I will not use anything but solid copper bullets for the simple reason that I don't want to eat lead. Cup and core bullets can deposit a lot of mass in an animal and most of that is lead. So for me, I'm comparing copper bullets in 6.5mm to .30 cal and that's a problem for the 6.5mm where there isn't anything heavier than about 130gr. That's not to say that a 127gr LRX isn't a great choice for deer and elk, but a .30 cal bullet will expand to a larger diameter, carries more energy, and shoots more than good enough to dump most animals in the US at potentially unethical ranges.

For example, the heaviest 6.5mm bullet with a decent BC offered by Barnes is the 127gr LRX in 6.5mm. The lightest LRX in .30 cal is 175gr. Pushing the 127gr to 2,800 fps and the 175gr to 2,700 fps (max velocities listed by Barnes in their load data) gives the results shown below with the superior value at each distance highlighted in green. The drop is borderline irrelevant with range finders and good reticles, the drift is virtually the same with a slight advantage going to the .30 cal, but the difference in the energy numbers is significant to me. With this example I would expect the felt recoil to be quite different, but having put hundreds of Federal GMM 168gr rounds through a suppressed .308 Win rifle recently that weighed 7lb 15oz including the scope, rings and suppressor, I would not expect the 175gr bullet at 2,700 fps to be anything to worry about. My .375 H&H 9lb all-in rifle shooting a 250gr bullet at 2,800 fps is very manageable and it has more than twice the recoil energy of the .308 Win used in this example. So for me this 6.5CM discussion comes down to the intended application, and since I'm not a PRS shooter, I'll keep my 6.5s for steel, but my .308s and .375 H&H for hunting.

On a side note, I designed a muzzle brake recently and shot the 6lb .308 Win rifle with thread protector, brake and suppressor and as has been observed many times, a good brake is by far the most effective way to reduce felt recoil, followed by the suppressor. If only brakes could wrap up the noise and deposit it somewhere else after we've long gone!

bah, you old fogeys...ies?

Admittedly I dont really care for the .308, Im in the 30-06 camp....

.308 shooters making fun of 6.5 shooters while '06 shooters make fun of .308 shooters makes me chuckle.

Love me some 308, but not as much as 7mm’s. However, one cannot beat the versatility of the 308 Win as @MCMXI has shown.

LoonWulf said:

bah, you old fogeys...ies?

Admittedly I dont really care for the .308, Im in the 30-06 camp....

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You and me both, I've been through several and just can't get excited enough to keep them around. For me the .308 is the beige Corolla of the gun world, I much prefer both the 6.5 CM and .30-06, even the .270.

I do plan on taking a trip to the wild side next time around the block and picking up a 7mm-08 or .280 AI, 7mm WSM would be on the list as well if it were still factory chambered by anyone.

Gtscotty said:

I do plan on taking a trip to the wild side next time around the block and picking up a 7mm-08 or .280 AI, 7mm WSM would be on the list as well if it were still factory chambered by anyone.

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NOW you're talkin' some sense.

Love my 7mm-08's! I loved my 7x57 before them, but unfortunately that caliber is a bit tough to find in the rifles I want to shoot. A .280 Rem or .280 AI is probably next on the list for me.

Llama Bob said:

The 6.5x55 motto: "short action performance in a long action, brought to you by the design mistakes of the 19th century"

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Maybe they didn’t have the metallurgy and manufacturing techniques in 1891 to withstand higher pressures. Also a lot of improvements in powder stability since then.

When you’re designing something that has to work in battle conditions from the Arctic to the equator, I suspect there are a lot of considerations that most don’t take into account

I love to shoot, found that my 270 shoots best at near max load, can only handle shooting 15 rounds a day or I develop a flinch, wife wouldn't shoot with me because 22 was boring and 270 too much recoil, bought her a 6.5cm and put a muzzle brake on it, wow what a sweet rifle now I lose all shooting games to her , I will be getting me a 6.5cm soon, this is a gun I can shoot all day and I look forward to having allot more fun shooting with my wife in the foreseeable future, I'm definitely a fan of the 6.5cm

LoonWulf said:

Admittedly I dont really care for the .308, Im in the 30-06 camp....

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What are you, like 97 years old?

Nature Boy said:

What are you, like 97 years old?

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poured a concrete slab, dug a trench, and dropped in 200' of 12" drain line in the last 3 days.....kinda feels like it right now.......

Nature Boy said:

What are you, like 97 years old?

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@Nature Boy, there's clearly a correlation between the rise in popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the decline in testosterone with age, along with an overall decline in testosterone in this country during the last 100 years. 100 years from now we'll all be shooting a lot better, talking about our feelings a lot more and heading to the "other" powder room in large packs!!

MCMXI said:

@Nature Boy, there's clearly a correlation between the rise in popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the decline in testosterone with age, along with an overall decline in testosterone in this country during the last 100 years. 100 years from now we'll all be shooting a lot better, talking about our feelings a lot more and heading to the "other" powder room in large packs!!

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Hahahahah!

MCMXI said:

@Nature Boy, there's clearly a correlation between the rise in popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the decline in testosterone with age, along with an overall decline in testosterone in this country during the last 100 years. 100 years from now we'll all be shooting a lot better, talking about our feelings a lot more and heading to the "other" powder room in large packs!!

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Excellent, according to your chart I'm peaked... Strong, like Bull!

I'm sure as I begin to move down the long unavoidable slope, things like cardigans, beige Corollas and .308s will start to become more and more alluring.

MCMXI said:

@Nature Boy, there's clearly a correlation between the rise in popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the decline in testosterone with age, along with an overall decline in testosterone in this country during the last 100 years. 100 years from now we'll all be shooting a lot better, talking about our feelings a lot more and heading to the "other" powder room in large packs!!

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I don't identify with your chart, I feel that my testosterones are just resting up for the next rush.....


of stupid....

Tho I suppose it IS Corolla time....30some odd right?

Gtscotty said:

I'm sure as I begin to move down the long unavoidable slope, things like cardigans, beige Corollas and .308s will start to become more and more alluring.

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You know it! Might as well pick up a .308 Win or two now while they're still affordable. Don't wait until your beige Corolla has one of the those blue parking passes. I'll be getting more 6.5s once my TT is below 500 ng/Dl.

horseman61 said:

All jokes aside I don’t understand the sheer animosity towards the 6.5 Creedmoor

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Imagine you went to school for 10 years to learn a skill and you've been known for doing good work for many years. Then one day a snot-nosed kid shows up right out of high school and tells you that he can do it better and without any training, and that his method works all the time, every time for every possible situation. That might cause some animosity right?

I celebrate diversity which means I enjoy the .308, 30-06, 25-06 AI, 6.8 SPC2, 7 Rmag, .300 winmag and the list goes on. I'm planning on a 6.5 Creedmoor.. That means I don't have a dog in the debate except I like them all.
I decided to limit calibers and lied to myself as I bought a 22-250.

horsemen61 said:

I wonder if the 30-30 or the 270 Winchester 7mm mag were treated like this?

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Many years ago; I got tired of the endless debate between the 270 crew and the 30-06 crew at deer camp.. So i bought a 7mm Rmag.. The sight of a 700 BDL leaning there made matters quieter
You see my father was in the 30-06 crew and my favorite uncle was in the .270 crew.. It was a no matter what I did, it was wrong which explains the 7 Rmag.

In my experience, they all work and quite well as no matter what anyone used; it filled out a tag.

horsemen61 said:

All jokes aside I don’t understand the sheer animosity towards the 6.5 Creedmoor I’m not saying it’s the greatest cartridge in the world for everybody,
I wonder if the 30-30 or the 270 Winchester 7mm mag were treated like this?

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Ask Elmer Kieth what he thought of the .270 LOL!

But its fairly unlikely ANY cartridge was given this much scrutiny or subjected to as much group dislike ( and fawning fan bo...peoples) before the enterweebz became a thing....folks sure had a harder time ganging up on them anyway lol

TikkaShooter said:

You see my father was in the 30-06 crew and my favorite uncle was in the .270 crew.. It was a no matter what I did, it was wrong which explains the 7 Rmag.

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Which is the old best thing since sliced bread....just ask ME!
Always will love a 7 RM lol