Why Can't I Find a 9mm I Shoot Well

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Or just do like me and ignore the 9mm completely
Goodluck.
While I completely disagree with the idea shooting huge recoiling handguns to deal with a flinch, this highlighted line is a great piece of advice. With the huge number of choices in handguns and ammo we have available there isn't a lot of reasons to shoot one that requires a lot of work to shoot accurately.
 
Most guns need some work to shoot accurately. A person going through numerous guns is suspect as to technique. A qualified person should be able to pick up most modern semis in a mild caliber like a 9 mm and shoot it acceptably. A friend had a Ruger something. Damn, it always shot off center. I'd better get those sights adjusted. Try it. Bang - center punched the bullseye. Grip, trigger, sight picture - look to that first. Not saying a gun can't be off - but many of them, nope.
 
It's probably more the gun than the caliber.

In a heavy steel pistol that fits your hand well, 9mm is a pussycat.

The OP needs a bigger heavier pistol, one that fits their hands better, or (preferably) both.
 
I had a similar situation when I first shot 9mm. Did much better with 45. I found that I was flinching and had learned to compensate without trying. Bad habit that. The recoil impulse was different in a 9mm so my subconscious compensation didn’t work real well, and I was pulling my shots.

I worked on my flinch, trigger discipline, and keeping my eyes open when shooting, and 9mm started working for me. In essence I realized I had a bigger problem.

I’m not saying that’s your issue, just that it worked for me. So maybe shoot a gun you shoot well, and pay close attention to what’s going on. If you diagnose what you’re doing right, it might help you figure out what you’re doing wrong when the 9mm is introduced.
Good luck.

I actually do understand that's what I'm doing. I'm closing my eyes and pulling the handgun low left in anticipation of the shot right at the break.. I'm just having trouble understanding why a 9mm in similar size and weight handguns would trigger it and .40 and .45 wouldn't. As you stated it has to be the sharper feel to the impulse.

I know it can eventually be trained out, but it's frustrating to pull every 10th shot 10" low left with the 9mm. I thought I had gotten past this a long time ago.

Until recently I had only shot 9mm in a limited amount in other peoples handguns. The problem didn't manifest until I tried shooting 9mm in longer strings (I was trying to transition to 9mm more for cost reasons).
 
It's probably more the gun than the caliber.

In a heavy steel pistol that fits your hand well, 9mm is a pussycat.

The OP needs a bigger heavier pistol, one that fits their hands better, or (preferably) both.

But why does a 23 oz .45 not create the same issue. Everything I've read says this shouldn't happen. The 9mm in a similar size handgun should create less issues not more.

PS My fingers are a little short for me to be really comfortable with the Beretta 92 Grip Circumference. My first thought in a big heavy 9mm.
 
It is not the gun.
I'll go with that. The best thing as said before is to get a quality instructor to take a look at your performance. I always shot to the right. Damn guns always shoot to the right. Why are they made that way? Tom Givens looks at my grip - it's fixed. I can shoot an IDPA match with only 3 to 5 points down on a good day.
That's my sentiment as well.

94045, as I suggested in post #11, reconsider these shooting aspects before resigning the accuracy issue to the pistol - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/point-shooting-and-old-movies.859668/#post-11306031
 
Most guns need some work to shoot accurately. A person going through numerous guns is suspect as to technique. A qualified person should be able to pick up most modern semis in a mild caliber like a 9 mm and shoot it acceptably. A friend had a Ruger something. Damn, it always shot off center. I'd better get those sights adjusted. Try it. Bang - center punched the bullseye. Grip, trigger, sight picture - look to that first. Not saying a gun can't be off - but many of them, nope.

I just apply more pressure with the offhand thumb if I'm shooting left.

It's not grip sight picture or trigger squeeze in my opinion. Those usually only make minor changes in impact point. Larger changes are anticipating the break or flinch in my opinion. But that's my experience, other people may be able to jerk the trigger hard enough to move the gun more but I haven't been able to.
 
That's my sentiment as well.

94045, as I suggested in post #11, reconsider these shooting aspects before resigning the accuracy issue to the pistol - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/point-shooting-and-old-movies.859668/#post-11306031

I know the issue is me. I'm just trying to understand why a Minor Caliber would cause me.issues when a Major doesn't.
I could understand if it was a specific pistol.
But a specific Minor Caliber just leaves me scratching my head. Mixing in Snap Caps are not alot of help because of the fact I only do it 1 round out of 10 (on average). You have to luck out for it to coincide with the snap cap.
 
I know the issue is me.

I'm just trying to understand why a Minor Caliber would cause me.issues when a Major doesn't.
Many factory pistols are capable of 1" groups at 7 yards, 2" groups at 10-15 yards and 3" groups at 25 yards with decent ammunition, regardless of caliber.

I had many instances where shooters in next lanes complain how poorly their pistols are shooting. When they see my tight groups, they often inquire as to why (I am often shooting my factory Glocks).

When I shoot their pistols and produce tight groups, they realize it's not their pistols but their shooting technique/bad habits and I help them shoot more accurately.

On one USPSA match practice day, when we complained our shooting was not as good as regional shooters due to our factory pistols vs their higher cost race guns, regional shooters took our factory guns and blistered through practice match stages with almost near the same accuracy. Then regional shooters told us the limiting factor wasn't our guns and helped us shoot more accurate and fast. :D
 
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I know they are capable of 1" at 7 yards.
Even with the 9mm I will put 45% in 1" and 45% within 2.5" (that's from less than perfect sight alignment and squeeze). It's the 10% that I anticipate and put 10" low left that's killing me. I don't ever do that with .40 or .45.
 
So get someone to coach you. When a pro athlete loses their touch, they go to a coach. One thing is that practicing without knowing why do you do the bad technique tends to reinforce the bad technique or introduce a kludge fix that isn't the best. I don't know why you are arguing about this. It goes against all athletic training knowledge.

BTW, folks are incredibly bad at self-diagnosis of problems. You really can't see all your motor actions.
 
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So get someone to coach you. When a pro athlete loses their touch, they go to a coach. One thing is that practicing without knowing why do you do the bad technique tends to reinforce the bad technique or introduce a kludge fix that isn't the best. I don't know why you are arguing about this. It goes against all athletic training knowledge.

I'm not arguing. I'm asking what it is about the 9mm that would make me do that and can it be fixed. If I was doing it more consistently snap caps would help. Even a low aimed laser would just confirm I did what I just did. Ive had a couple of instructors look but it's not consistent enough to be easy to deal with. The two responses I've got is "shoot more 9mm" and "why do you need to shoot 9mm".
 
Your pistols are not the best for target (no ofense intented) improve your techniques, grip, read your sights, trigger, call your shots and breathing.
Practice with one pistol first enough, once you improved, move to another repeating the learned.
Placing holes on the paper is an easy job, target shooting or improving technics might take awhile but once you learned it will apply to any firearm.

CZhen
FL
 
The two responses I've got is "shoot more 9mm" and "why do you need to shoot 9mm".

That indicates the instructors were unqualified. It take more advanced instructor training to be able to diagnosis problems. There are too many folks with sketchy credentials - which are usually that they shot guns in the service or law. They may be good shots but do they have training in teaching or diagnosis. There are several quality outfits that teach instructors, like Givens, Ayoob, Rehn and others.

I know a world champion who used to teach. When folks wanted to shoot faster for competition, he would just say : Shoot faster. He didn't have real insight into the training process.

As a retired professor, I know it takes effort to become a good instructor beyond just saying the words.

It may be hard to find such. Many instructors just like to tell war stories and watch you shoot at square targets.

Google 'finding a good firearms instructor' for some tips from the pros on how to do this.
 
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"PS My fingers are a little short for me to be really comfortable with the Beretta 92 Grip Circumference. My first thought in a big heavy 9mm."

I would recommend 1911. Your hand doesn't have to be large, but it's a heavy and stable platform. They don't have to be expensive to be reliable, either.

 
I agree with you that a 9mm can feel sharp, especially if the gun is smaller and lighter. I own a sig p938 and with a factory load that thing has some kick. Same load in my STI Marauder and I just laugh at how much fun. With all that said, I reload. I have developed loads that are just comfortable to shoot round after round.

I am a big fan of the 124 grain bullet in a 9mm. But if you are recoil sensitive, I may lean toward 147 grain bullets. Also, give a full sized 1911 in 9mm a try. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.

Then there is reloading. All problems can be solved by making your own ammo :)

Pete
 
I know they are capable of 1" at 7 yards.
Even with the 9mm I will put 45% in 1" and 45% within 2.5" (that's from less than perfect sight alignment and squeeze). It's the 10% that I anticipate and put 10" low left that's killing me. I don't ever do that with .40 or .45.
Dropping 10% of your shots sounds more like a concentration issue than a physical one.
 
Those things on top of the gun that stick up in the front and the back. Try using them.
 
Can you have some shoot a short video of you gripping and shooting these 9mm's??

Impossible to diagnose over the internet.
 
Great drill I used to do with my wife. We would use two mags. One would have a round in it, the other would not. She would not know which one I would insert into the gun, then have her shoot. Nothing shows a flinch better than pulling the trigger with no bullet in it. You can also get one of those dummy rounds and insert into the mag with the bullets.

As far as grip goes, and assuming you are not doing things like cupping with the non trigger hand: I twist both hands into each other when I grip the gun. Stole the idea from one of the pro shooters. It is a great way to keep the gun stable and manage recoil. I will post the video for you if I can figure out who the shooter is.
 
Great drill I used to do with my wife. We would use two mags. One would have a round in it, the other would not. She would not know which one I would insert into the gun, then have her shoot. Nothing shows a flinch better than pulling the trigger with no bullet in it. You can also get one of those dummy rounds and insert into the mag with the bullets.

As far as grip goes, and assuming you are not doing things like cupping with the non trigger hand: I twist both hands into each other when I grip the gun. Stole the idea from one of the pro shooters. It is a great way to keep the gun stable and manage recoil. I will post the video for you if I can figure out who the shooter is.

My problem is the normal fixes are not working.

1. Only occurs with one caliber.
2. It only occurs with a rough minimum of 1 out of 10 rounds (sometimes I can make it as many as 30).
3. When you mix in snap caps it never seems to coincide with the snap cap. It's to inconsistent.

If simply shooting enough 9mm rounds would make it go away I would be okay with it (suggested by one instructor). I'm worried this will ingrain the habit and worse have it appear with other calibers.

I guess I need to move up the scale. I've only talked to 4 instructors so far. I'm not shooting anymore 9mm until I find someone that actually wants to make a serious attempt (beyond shoot more 9mm). I'll stick to .40 and .45 until then to avoid the chance of ingraining the issue.

PS It is not a grip or trigger problem (moves the round an inch or two). It's obvious anticipation (moves the round close to 10").
 
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