The RUGER OLD ARMY Club

ROA Club Members:

01. ClemBert 02. Eights 03. kanook 04. [email protected] 05. mykeal
06. adaptandovercome 07. 461 08. junkman_01 09. lonewolf5347 10. rcflint
11. MCgunner 12.madcratebuilder 13. AbitNutz 14. eastbank 15. robert garner
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26. OB One 27. jungle 28. plumbernater 29. daveinvegas 30. JanZ
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36. Erich 37. robhof 38. J-Bar 39. Nomad, 2nd 40. TAURUSBOB
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271. D. Buck Stopshere 272. Henry Anvil 273. RugerOldArmy 274. jim4945 275. cowboydave
276. cjensen 277. kdmmcc 278. Art Van Hecke 279. scuubbs



Welcome scuubbs! :D
 
Cool, Thanks for the welcome... Ive got a question already... Im confused about the Ruger instruction manual on decocting the ROA. It states that its imperative to release the trigger once the hammer has passed half cock and then to rest the hammer in a safety slot or on an empty cylinder. It says to never lower the hammer on a cap during the decock.. Well my gun doesn't work that way... It doesn't matter if you let the trigger out after it passes half cock or not you have to lower onto the cylinder that is currently locked in position... Once you release the hammer starting the decock the cylinder bolt remains engaged in the cylinder until you lower the hammer all the way onto the cylinder, then pull back to half cock, rotate cylinder to a safety slot, then lower hammer from half cock to safety slot... The only reason this came up was because I read about the scratch on cylinder (and timing) and was trying to avoid mishandling the ROA by rotating the cylinder while the bolt is still pressed against it... Im a computer guy so I am probably over thinking this....lol... Whats up with my gun?
 
There is only one way that I recommend which is NOT the Ruger way. For liability reasons, I don't recommend my way, however I do use it successfully. If you somehow buy a cylinder without the safety slots, don't even think of doing this.
1. If your revolver is in the half cock position from loading (bolt is down) then that is a good place to start. Note that going from full cock to half cock will leave the bolt up which will lock up the cylinder. The problem with this is that the very slightest of clockwise movement of the cylinder will cause the hand to fall into the next hole and lock the whole mechanism up between the bolt and the hand. Nothing moves because these two parts, both locked into the cylinder, form a deadly embrace (a computer term you might understand). To get out of this, you need to pull the base pin and mess with the cylinder 'till you can get it to release, or if you don't want to pull the base pin, get a .0005 feeler gauge and try to depress the bolt, which will stay down once depressed. The feeler gauge release of the bolt is obviously safer when you have a loaded and capped cylinder.
2. Once you have attained a successful rotating cylinder half cock, simply rotate the cylinder 'till you have a safety notch (slot) aligned with the bore/hammer, you pull back on the hammer just enough for the trigger to release and gently lower the hammer into the safety slot. The firearm is them relatively safe (it is nevertheless a black powder gun).
3. The other method is to go to full cock, then lower the hammer into the half cock notch by pulling and releasing the trigger while controlling the hammer. I don't like this method as you have to actually pull the trigger on a loaded cylinder from full cock. Being a 1911 guy who carries "cocked and locked", I am accustomed to using the web of my hand to control the hammer during this operation, but controlling it with the thumb while releasing the trigger is not my cup of tea on a loaded gun.

Hope this is of some help.
 
Thanks for the response Art.. I am glad you explained the lock up thing because that happened to me too....lol.. I will have to think about that one more...Here is a great video on the internal op of the ROA... Towards the end there is a great see thru of internals during cocking...

After watching and thinking a lot...lol... I think I got it... Books wrong.. Like you say lowering hammer from full to half cock does not release the cylinder bolt... The bolt is only released when the hammer is raised to half cock not when falling... This happens because of the little spring/plunger that's on the hammer that operates the bolt.. On the up travel the little plunger is sticking out under the arm of the bolt thereby lifting it which pulls bolt from cylinder... on down stroke the little plunger hits the top of the bolt arm unable to push it further into the cylinder the plunger spring compresses allowing hammer to pass by bolt arm without pulling bolt from cylinder... Like all single actions I have ever used you lower full cock all the way to the cylinder.. Lowering to half cock does nothing but like Art says lock up the whole thing.... Crazy but book seems wrong... Book seems to be talking about rugers with crossbolt safety...
 
My plan was to do the ROA like I did the Colt and sell the Colt to cover the $700 I paid for ROA...lol.. But I got nervous when it locked up on me... Until I know whats up with lock up I can't trust for my defense...
 
Your a genius on the lockup thing Art.. You never want the trigger in the half cock notch with the bolt in the cylinder and the pawl in an index hole on cylinder.. Bad lockup... You have to hold the trigger in while lowering the hammer fully, if you allow the trigger to set into the half cock notch on hammer you stand the chance of the pawl engaging and you're locked... you can't cock the hammer or lower it... I seen one guys video were he puts his thumb in between hammer and frame when decocking for extra safety since you have to lower on live cap.

I just think it takes all three engaged because if its just the pawl and bolt why can't you just lower hammer... Lowering hammer brings pawl down.. The trigger in half cock notch in hammer stops this...
 
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Congratulations scuubbs, nice ROA!

The half cock notch has a lip (for safety) which means you'd have to pull the hammer back enough to release the trig. from half cock. That can't happen because . . . it's locked up. The problem is a short hand (pawl) or worn cyl. ratchet holes. These (either or both) can be fixed but the best fix until then is . . . DON'T DO THAT !!! LOL!!!

The instructions should be talking about letting the hammer down after loading, "from half cock" (not from full cock) so you CAN rotate to a safety notch or empty chamber. If you mess up and cycle the hammer to full cock with a live chamber in battery, you can let the hammer down to just past half cock (but still a good distance from the cap) and the bolt will reset . . . allowing you to go back to half cock and rotate cyl to a safety position or an empty chamber.
You are correct though, it's a timing thing. As far as keeping the Ruger "beauty ring" free, just treat it like you would a normal Colt action. Hands off the cylinder except at half cock otherwise, the hammer has the correct "program".

Mike

PS, I just happen to have a pair of ROAs with the instruction book still in the box so, I looked and by golly, Page 18 makes absolutely no sense!! You can't do what it "instructs" you to do! You can't turn a locked cylinder!! But, like I said, you can ease the hammer down to just past half cock (which allows the bolt to reset) and then back to half cock. Then move the cyl to a "safe condition".
Of course, this wouldn't be the problem it apparently is if the timing is correct and parts are in the condition they should be in.
 
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Thanks Mike, excellent info.. To me once you have lowered the hammer that far down (past half cock) your well past the danger zone already so why not just lower on down on cylinder and then back to half cock so your cycling the action fully.. I have been lowering hammers onto live chambers for years and never had a thumb slip.. Caps don't go off with slight bumps anyway... My gun is new and I have seen lots of forums mention this lockup so I don't believe there is anything worn but the ROA has a bug.. The right sequence of events can give you a full cock lockup with the trigger stuck in the half cock notch... It appears that close to the half cock position is were the pawl starts engaging the index hole to rotate the cylinder and this is the flaw.. When you lower the hammer to half cock the cylinder stays locked and the since that position is also were the pawl starts rotating the cylinder you stand the chance of it hitting a hole and locking.. Never lower to half cock with trigger out.. I think I can trust the ROA now and can shift my thoughts to making it look like my Colt...
 
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You're welcome! Its been mentioned a couple of times now so, as a hint, the cylinder should never be able to move after full cock. That would allow an "out of battery discharge ". If you have any S.A.s that do that (cyl movement when moving hammer from full cock), they are not safe to fire! It's usually ill play between the cam and bolt arm.

Since I'm a little anal about the mechanical condition, I always install a bolt block which usually requires the hand to be stretched slightly. That just happens to be the cure for the ROA lockup condition. Even though mine get fixed by default, the clearances can be off enough (called slop) to allow the "lockup " even on "new" revolvers.

Mike

Oh, BTW, you can do as you say about lowering the hammer all the way down (some folks "seat" their caps that way) but, as long as the bolt resets, it makes no difference if you go down further or back to half cock ("reset" is key).
 
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Thanks again, and yes I knew that the cylinder has to remain locked during the full hammer downstroke and only releases when u lift to half cock.... you mind elaborating on the bolt block? Are you saying you install it on the ROA or just stretch the bolt arm slightly on ROA? Aren't you just changing the timing slightly by stretching the bolt arm?
 
Im really confused now because I looked at the timing of my gun by looking at the point when the bolt pops up versus the point at full cock....lol.. Perfect timing would be no difference, correct? Well I removed the cylinder and very slowly cocked it watching when the bolt pops up and when the trigger falls in full cock (or when bolt snaps in cylinder when its in), big difference. The Colt had a tiny difference. Bolt pops up about 3/4 cock.. I dont think u can stretch the arm that much...lol...
Is this normal? I was watching this video on timing a bisley.....Im going to strip this thing down completely for a good, slow, careful look...lol..
 
View attachment 876426 20191207_132903.jpg Scuubbs, the bolt block lays beside the bolt and gives lateral support. This takes the side force at lock-up. Now, the bolt can just do it's job of locking/unlocking. Here's a pic. of one laying in place and another pic of it installed. I modify the combination spring to hold the block in place. You can also see the stationary arm of the coil bolt spring. It has to be trimmed for length. This is a Remington that I'm working on right now but it is basically the same for Colt and Ruger actions as well.

It's the hand that you stretch not the bolt arm and yes it will slightly advance the cyl. which will change where the bolt contacts the cyl. at bolt drop. You check timing with the cylinder installed. Drag a finger on the cyl while slowly cycling the action. First thing to correct is full cock and cyl lockup happening simultaneously. After that, you adjust everything else.

Don't do any tuning from YouTube videos !!! They will show every way but the correct way (and more ways to screw up your action!! They will even admit that you better get extra parts!!!)

The 2nd pic got its own post!! Sorry!

Mike
 
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I hate to bug you Mike, thanks your being very helpful.. I checked the timing as you described and it is way off, about 3/4 cock and the bolt is out dragging on the cylinder... Hard to believe a gun that shows virtually no wear can be that far off.... I only checked with cylinder out to see if bolt was really all the way out and under spring tension... Is this what you mean by hand? and what do you think of mine being so far off.. r1.jpg
 
Ahh I get it, lengthen the angled end, just left of my arrow above... which lengthens the amount of stroke the bolt stays out of the cylinder during the cock.. It keeps the bolt out until further along the full cock... Between this and lengthening the pawl is how you time the gun I assume... depending on what the gun is doing..
 
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Ok that is the "bolt". The hand is what rotates the cyl. Ruger calls these parts the "cylinder latch " and "pawl" respectively. The hand or pawl is what needs to be made longer. Tell you what, I'll send you a PM and you can call and I'll walk you through it. It much easier that way.

Mike
 
Ok that is the "bolt". The hand is what rotates the cyl. Ruger calls these parts the "cylinder latch " and "pawl" respectively. The hand or pawl is what needs to be made longer. Tell you what, I'll send you a PM and you can call and I'll walk you through it. It much easier that way.

Mike
Ok, that's what the guy is doing to the bisley in the video....
 
So you lengthen the pawl to rotate the cylinder further... Im going to strip my gun down completely and inspect everything... It seems too far out to me... The guy in the video does quite a bit of pounding for a fraction of an inch out of time....
 
This video from Brownells Inc. on revolver timing is worth watching... Using this test my ROA is like dead on timing and the Colt is a tad slow.. This makes logical sense to me since the ROA is new and the Colt's been around... I think that little drag of the bolt isn't squat..And as far as lock up I will never let the hammer down to half cock again and bet I never lock her up again.. On to conversion to belly gun.. Thanks..

 
Pawl is generally a latch that prevents counter-rotation. As the ROA "pawl" is actually rotating the cylinder in addition to at times preventing counter-rotation (wanted or unwanted), it should have another name. Hand has been used (especially by Colt) for a long time and is well known in the gunsmithing community.
 
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