I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!

Were you shooting off a bench rest or offhand?

Good deal ! You got a small taste of why folks reload.

The problem, of course, is that every powder, every charge weight, every bullet, every bullet weight, every seating depth, every primer, every combination.....
Shoots differently.

Enjoy !

Good job.

You just wait. It can get downrite fun trying for that one hole group. I now believe that I shoot so I have brass to reload and make things more accurate.

Nice shooting and Happy Birthday! You and I are the same age and I started reloading 8 years ago. I'm always learning and enjoy reloading as much as I do shooting.

Bullet weight?

I shoot my best 9mm groups with heavier bullets.

that .2 grains of powder is 6% of the load weight. that is a lot. to put that into perspective, 6% of a 50 grain charge (normal in a high power rifle) is a 3.0 grain increment. most rifle reloaders use .5 grain increments as a max and .2 grain increments as a norm. you can use a .1 grain increment in your handgun reloading and see a difference. this is why I weigh every powder charge.

seating the bullet longer, or shorter, will also affect accuracy, although not as much as powder charge.

luck,

murf

p.s. very nice shooting hotshot357!

hotshot357 said:

I shot both offhand ... I turned 69 yesterday and I'm pretty proud of that group! I have to give a lot of credit to the CZ 75!!!!

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Nice shooting! And happy birthday!

hotshot357 said:

I shot the 3.3 first and then the 3.5. What a difference!!! I can't believe the difference in .2 grain of powder!!

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Many fast burning powders have start/max charge range of around 0.5 gr and I found sometimes 0.2 gr of powder charge could make a big difference.

Also, many powders tend to produce greater accuracy as charges approach maximum load data likely from more efficient and consistent powder burn and pressure build.

BTW, Hodgdon load data - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 125 gr Lead CN 700-X COL 1.125" Start 2.9 gr (899 fps) 23,700 PSI - Max 3.4 gr (1,003 fps) 31,600 PSI

hotshot357 said:

LiveLife, I used the load data for the 115gr. LRN. My thinking was the pressures would be the same and the OAL was perfect. The velocities will be off but the psi was more important to me (25,200-31,900). Please let me know if my thinking was wrong.

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If you used 124 gr bullets you should only use load data for that weight. You actually have less space in the cartridge with the heavier bullet and because it takes more of an impulse to move the heavier bullet you would see a pressure spike using loads for a lighter one. I’d tread carefully if I were you.

I used a 125 gr cast lead with 4 gr of 700X once...ONCE...
Actually I still have three pounds of the stuff stashed away for rainy day, because dagnabbit that stuff is hard to meter!
Good shooting and welcome to the addiction!

hotshot357 said:

LiveLife, I used the load data for the 115gr. LRN

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You can reference load data for bullet weight that is slightly heavier but not the other way around. Since most bullets can vary in weight by 1.0+ grain, I interchange load data for 124 gr and 125 gr bullets.

And you are using Cone Nose profile bullet which typically has longer bullet base that gets seated deeper than Round Nose profile bullet with shorter bullet base. So for 124 gr LCN bullet, I would use 125 gr LCN load data and not 115 gr LRN load data.

Here are 115 gr LRN and 125 gr LCN load data for comparison - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 115 gr Lead Round Nose 700-X COL 1.100" Start 3.3 gr (986 fps) 25,200 PSI - Max 3.7 gr (1,082 fps) 31,900 PSI

• 125 gr Lead Cone Nose 700-X COL 1.125" Start 2.9 gr (899 fps) 23,700 PSI - Max 3.4 gr (1,003 fps) 31,600 PSI

hotshot357 said:

LiveLife, I used the load data for the 115gr. LRN. My thinking was the pressures would be the same and the OAL was perfect. The velocities will be off but the psi was more important to me (25,200-31,900). Please let me know if my thinking was wrong.

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Your thinking was wrong. The pressure will not be the same. Since you used a heavier bullet (124 gr) with 115 load data, your pressures will be higher than those for 115 grain bullets.

Your velocity will also be different, and in this case, the speed of your 124 grain bullets will most likely be higher than what the 115 grain bullets produced.

Now you need to try 3.4.
Since you are over MAX or very close to it,
I would play with the 3.3 load and adjust the OAL up and down a bit (may .05 at a time)to see if I could make it shoot better (as good as 3.5) and not be right on the edge.

Glad you found something that works for you.

hotshot357 said:

LiveLife, I used the load data for the 115gr. LRN. My thinking was the pressures would be the same and the OAL was perfect. The velocities will be off but the psi was more important to me (25,200-31,900). Please let me know if my thinking was wrong.

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So, the important thing to note is that a higher grain bullet is going to be a larger projectile and it's going to consume more case space. This will increase your pressure, often substantially. I notice in the data that you posted that the 124gn bullet uses both less powder and a longer overall length compared to the 115gn and both of those variations lead to increased pressure.

For example in the load data we've been posting in this thread,

LiveLife said:

• 115 gr Lead Round Nose 700-X COL 1.100" Start 3.3 gr (986 fps) 25,200 PSI - Max 3.7 gr (1,082 fps) 31,900 PSI

• 125 gr Lead Cone Nose 700-X COL 1.125" Start 2.9 gr (899 fps) 23,700 PSI - Max 3.4 gr (1,003 fps) 31,600 PSI

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The minimum charge for the 115gn LRN is nearly the maximum for the 125gn LRN, ie. if 3.3gns of powder is the min for 115gn, but 3.4gn is the max for the the 125gn, then simply "using the 115gn data" is perhaps a risky proposition. You're inadvertently loading nearly maximum loads even at minimum, or over-max at 3.5gn (vs. 3.4 recommended maximum), and the risk is amplified by the lower seating length of 1.1" flat versus the recommended 1.125" for the 124gn.

My guess is the higher powered rounds are indeed more accurate but if you're not shooting with a chronograph it's hard to guess what your pressure is really at. I presume you're not noticing anything scary so you're probably fine but still you want to keep it in mind. Don't swap data between bullet weights if you can help it in my opinion.

I hope this helps!

This is exactly why I reload. I don't count pennies for "saving money" I reload for the satisfactions, working at the bench producing good ammo, shooting that ammo, comparing and recording results, and studying data for the next load...

From my experience, you need to be very careful of powder drops with 700X. The only time I ever had a squib was with 700X. Did not meter will in my Lee Auto Disk. The remainder of the can became garden fertilizer.

Echo the above sentiments. Good job taking the other posters advice. The small case capacity of the 9mm reduces your margin for error. I bet you will be happier and safer with a ball powder that meters well. HS6 and 231 have worked for me.

You need to be very careful using really light loads with coarse flake powers such as 700x and Unique. They don't meter well. If I recall correctly, LEE advises you not to use cavities smaller than 0.4cc for flake powders. With 3.2 grains of 700X that is only about 0.43 cc’s if that particular batch of powder is at the max end of density (0.1343grains/cc).

And yes, you are generally ok with charges for a bullet that is heavier than the bullet you are using as long as the bullet type is similar ie. lead vs. jacketed. Less mass to move = less resistance = less pressure. Still, ALWAYS start at the min when substituting any component. Actually change that to ALWAYS start a the min.

There are metering issues with 700X, but not performance issues. If you'll run more tests using Alliant Sport Pistol, your metering issues will resolve themselves. That in turn will give you MORE consistent loads and your accuracy will improve yet again.

Hope this helps.